building a "big" Potamotrygon/SA Catfishes tank

[ElTofi]

Hi you all,

It seems I still have a few good ideas to apply, considering fishkeeping hobby

I intend to sell my 1600 liters (the one who homed the Pseuda's) to build a "big" concrete tank for Potamotrygon and bis Cats as Panaque or even bigger Pseudoplatystoma together with Cichla and Osteoglossum... I have this idea for a long time spinning around me from time to time... in 2005, building the house, I almost made it and finally, I didn't dare

This time, I'm on my way to do it...

here you can find a first simulation of what I have in mind


dimensions : 400x150x120 cm
netto volume : 6000 liters (more or less, considering I won't fill it till the top, because of the arowana)

This is just a first draft, of course. I need your inputs to help me in this project.

[Janne]

Arowana can jump 1-2 meters without any problem ;)

But it look's like a very nice project.

Janne

[ElTofi]

I know what you mean... I intend to build a 120 cm high for a real water height of 100 and install a kind of barrer upon it with plexiglass. The best would probably be a entire cover on the top of it all...

[bsmith]

You could put a screen iver the top. Like on screen porch doors.

That looks like a fantastic tank build. Best if luck can't wait to see the results!

[ElTofi]

The current "draft" I created this morning, waiting for the electrician (electrical updates to realize to implement this new tank) :

with 2 new glasses... this one would be 440 x 170 x 120 cm


and in case I wouldn't be able to find a buyer for my 1600 liters, I eventually could recycle the front (or ground) glass. This one would "only" be 400 x 170 x 120 cm


I will post a new "virtual scene" tonight...

[ElTofi]

here we go...

2nd version of the video :

[Leopardfrogplec]

Any specific catfish you want? When I take over the world, I'll have a tank at least 10 times the size of yours, with arowana, stingrays, Sailfin plecs and huge cichlids (Vieja and all large ones really). [That WILL happen ...]

[ElTofi]

a bit too early to freeze the population, but I'm thinking of :

- 4 Potamotrygon of the same specie (choice not frozen, but between P. leopoldi, P. henlei, P. schroederi "flower", P. "pearl"). I'd love to find bred specimen
- 5 Cichla "small type", for example C. monoculus or C. kelberi or C. ocellaris (exit C. temensis or T. orinocensis, much too big and agressive)
- 1 (2 ?) Osteoglossum ferreirai (black arowana)
- 6 Panaque sp L191, which are already growing in my 720 liters from a few months
- 1 Red Tail giant Catfish (Phractocephalus h.)

That's my dream as I dream it... I'll probably have to be more responsible... Even if this tank should be around 6'000 to 7'000 liters (around 1700 gallons), it's "only" a tank... not a river

[matthewfaulkner]

A very impressive idea, I can only dream, looking forward to seeing it complete. What sort of filtration will you use?

[ElTofi]

What you can not see (yet) on this simulation is the "catwalk" I'm going to install above the tank, along the back wall. This catwalk will allow me to lay 2 "pond gravity filters" on it. The pumps will be settled on the bottom of the tank, and pulse the charged water into the filters... gravity will pour it back to the tank, after treatment.

Another idea comes slowly out of the muddy thinking cloud into my head : a vegetal wall, to cover it all... I could use Monstera or Spathyphyllum to clean my organic charged waters in addition to the filters...

Anyway, there will be an overflow and the tank will be filled in continuously with a flow still to evaluate.

[AleGer]

Great Project:)

What do you think about scobiancistrus in your tank?
I dream to create such a big tank with scobiancistrus. But Panaque also would be great.

- 1 Red Tail giant Catfish (Phractocephalus h.)

For my point, Red Tail grows more then a meter, so it could be too big even for this tank. (I don't want to tell not to keep this catfish:)

[ElTofi]

Great Project:)

What do you think about scobiancistrus in your tank?
I dream to create such a big tank with scobiancistrus. But Panaque also would be great.

- 1 Red Tail giant Catfish (Phractocephalus h.)

For my point, Red Tail grows more then a meter, so it could be too big even for this tank. (I don't want to tell not to keep this catfish:)

I already have the Panaque... and I have bad experience with Scobiancistrus aureatus I know there's nothing to do with the specie... but...

And I must recognize that you're probably right for the Phracto... I know that... but... Joking... I'm gonna see that later, when the tank will be built... probably not a so brilliant idea...

[Elwood]

It looks like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6rUyDHWH2o
I mean the first one.

[ElTofi]

estheticaly, maybe But considering size, there's nothing in common...

the German one is 105'000 liters
mine will be around 7'000 liters

see what I mean ?

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Great Project:)

What do you think about scobiancistrus in your tank?
I dream to create such a big tank with scobiancistrus. But Panaque also would be great.

- 1 Red Tail giant Catfish (Phractocephalus h.)

For my point, Red Tail grows more then a meter, so it could be too big even for this tank. (I don't want to tell not to keep this catfish:)

I already have the Panaque... and I have bad experience with Scobiancistrus aureatus I know there's nothing to do with the specie... but...

And I must recognize that you're probably right for the Phracto... I know that... but... Joking... I'm gonna see that later, when the tank will be built... probably not a so brilliant idea...

Great tank!
I heard that large Panaques can harm stingrays cuite bad.... I read it in some book about fresh water stingrays....

Perhaps this is not a problem in such a big tank....

I'm building a 2400*1200*45 aquarium for stingrays and perhaps for some big pleco breeding,...


I like that you're back on track again!

[CanadaPleco]

I heard that large Panaques can harm stingrays cuite bad.... I read it in some book about fresh water stingrays....

L330 ate my marble motoro With lots of wood in the tank, you may have better luck in such a large tank, but be cautious. Maybe try a cheap ray first and see how they react.

[ElTofi]

Hi guys !

some news about this project... I recieved a lot of advices and ideas, and considering all this, I think the final project will be quite similar to this last simulation :



530x160x110 cm of internal dimensions, so around 9'000 liters

The work should begin from end April with the remove of the 1600 liters. Then, I will order the electrical work and the building of the concrete tank should begin in early June. I'm considering one month for drying the bottom (with the heating system included), then building the front wall and drying during another month. Then I'll manage the 2 componants resin layer and finally, at the end of August, I'll manage the front glasses...

More or less, it should be ready to be filled in early September 2011...

and then...

[MatsP]

Looks good. I take it you have consulted someone with knowledge in structural engineering regarding the thickness of the concrete and the size of windows - to me, the piece between the windows seem pretty narrow, and would be a weak spot. But it's a long time since I studied engineering of that kind, and I didn't actually study building engineering at all - it was mainly metal constructions that I dealt with (and only simple ones - only so much you can learn in 2-3 hours per week over two years when you start from scratch).

Is the bar at the top over the windows structural, or simply decorative and protective of the glass top?

--
Mats

[ElTofi]

each part of the "front wall" is 50 cm long...

I took advice from profesionnals indeed, and a second advice from people who built such tanks on their own. I'm quite confident, as the concrete support front wall will be "armored" with steel bars, which will be bedded to a depth of 20 cm into the basement and 10 cm into the side walls.

as the height of the water column is "only" 110 cm, the glass taken on 4 sides and will be on the upper side of the tank, the thickness of 19 mm is confortably sufficient. And the bar above the glass will be structural, to have a 4 sides contact to glue the glass. Moreover, I will install a 70 cm Plexiglass balustrade above it, to avoid "jumping problems" with Arowana and Characidae.

all these points have been challenged... but I could have missed one... so feel free to ask and to challenge it !

[ElTofi]

a long Sunday afternoon... I make a bit of order in my late topics...

just to say that the project is running well... the 1600 liters has been removed (what a mess) and the basement with heater incorporated is done... next step : the front wall... I'll show you a few pictures these next days.

[ElTofi]

so, everyone... I'm taking a couple of minutes to feed this topic with the job done until now... the complete topic is in French on AquAgora... Here are a selection of the highlights of this on going project...

In mid-May, remove of the 1600 liters (which I was unable to sell, even at mean price : too big for common people in my area )












Game Over for this one...

[ElTofi]

Then, the electrical work begun...




first bills...

[ElTofi]

a bit of thermical improvement was necessary... Wedi plates, very expensive !!!




Set up of the "overflow" for water...


to avoid the bad waste waters smells...

[ElTofi]

a bit more "isolation job" to prevent too big heat loss through the ground...




the heating system, coming from the heater of the house (4th part of it, one for each flor and the 4th for the tank) : 80 meters on 8.6 m2


mitigation valve...

[ElTofi]

the work goes on with covering it all by a liquid concrete...



2 weeks later (this Thursday), we begin to built the front wall...


left side...


right side...


here we are for today...


next week, the end of the coffer of the front wall, including the front glasses places... I must admit it's the first "delicate" work, as it must be very precise work and I won't be here to check it before filling it with concrete... I'm kind of stressed

some more pics next week...

[MatsP]

Very interesting.

--
Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Wow... You really put everything in on this one!

[apistomaster]

As a license structural construction inspector, retired, if I could not be present before and during concrete placement I would hire an inspector. The inspector's job is to verify correct placement of reinforcing steel, including minimum concrete cover, no unauthorized additions of water just to make the contractor's work easier and sample and test the compressive strength of the concrete mix design for assurance of compliance with the Engineer's approved concrete mix design and project specification.
I would use concrete plasticizers on a high strength,low water to cement ratio mix design. Use low slump concrete and add the plasticizer just prior to placement so the concrete will flow well and be easy to consolidate. You will produce a very dense, low porosity concrete that was still easy to place and reach every part of the form and be uniformly consolidated by internal vibrators.
The plasticizers are also called water reducing admixtures.
You can begin with concrete with only a two inch slump but after adding the water reducing admixture the slump will be increased to at least six inches without adding any water and end up with extremely dense and strong concrete of extremely low permeability to water. It will also increase it's resistance to wear and will provide an excellent surface to coat with nontoxic, two part epoxy of whatever color you desire.

[ElTofi]

thanks for your advice... It would probably be a good idea to proceed so...

I don't worry about the concrete quality (we agreed on a water-resistant-concrete, with fibres inside it), just about the places for the front glasses... I made plans, he read and understood, he has several pictures of what it should look like... And I'm not sure my presence would increase the job's quality...

it's just that I'd like to be here... just in case... And I probably will take dispositions to be at home when the work should be done...

[ElTofi]

front wall done ! A few pictures of the "wet work"... it's not easy to understand what it's all about, but anyway, I should have better pics of it in his "final form" after the removal of the coffer, from Friday night... maybe next Monday, at worst...

right part :


left part :


the tiny piece of wood to create the place to stick the glass (left part of the right glass, the small one 70x70 cm)


the right part of the left glass (the big one : 320x70cm)


the "inside" of the tank (behind the big glass) :


the "inside", right part...


And a last detail of the complex coffer with 3 wall sections on the length and 2 glasses inserted... The guy told me on the phone "very interesting, but thank God, it's not everyday"