Hello,
I'm planning to establish 530 l tank almost as a Discus species tank, i.e. ca. 29 C, fairly soft and acidic. I'd like very much to add two different pairs of interesting/beautiful (which is quite subjective, of course ) Loricariidae (e.g. panaques etc.). The size of those in the ballpark of 15 to max. 30 cm of length each. Any suggestions of species that goes well with these conditions and are not too difficult to handle or find would be very much appreciated. I've tried to search the forum for a similar question, and I apologize if the topic has already been covered.
Thanks a lot in advance!
these do prefer some current and I'm not sure discus likes current as well. something to think about. Also, as for competition over food, I think Hypancistrus species could have a hard time as tankmates with Discus. I would certainly choose Baryancistrus, they are easy to target feed if necessary. how to target feed? read: http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... es+of+food (down at the end of the page)
Hi Tim,
Thanks a lot for your very useful input - it's certainly a couple of beautiful species you have suggested. I'll look more closely at other members of the 2 genera you have suggested. Thanks for the great link - Discus should be slow eaters so maybe the feeding will not be too much of a problem (?) - I'm not quite sure about the current, I'll have to look further into that.
Best wishes, Hans
I have been keeping and breeding Discus since 1969 and began raising Loricaridae about 6 years ago.
I have only tried one of the Gold Nuggets once with 10 Heckel Discus and it was fine but they grow so slowly so I don't know how well larger and older specimens would do,but I do know Gold Nuggets sometimes decide they like to scrape Echinodorus bleheri leaves to death.
I recommend keeping Hypancistrus species and Peckoltia sp, especially Peckoltia L134 as Discus tank mates. These latter genera can completely replace the use of any warm water Corydoras species as your bottom clean up crew and they all eat the same foods normally fed to Discus. They need the same warm water and same water chemistry as Discus. I use a common Ancistrus as my resident algae eater as none of the Hypancistrus or Peckoltia species are algae eaters.
Schools of Parotocinclus or Otocinclus are nice to keep in planted Discus tanks.
I advise against trying to keep Sturisoma with Discus. I raise Sturisoma aureum and have had times where I have kept juveniles with juvenile Discus and adults with adult Discus and sooner or later the Sturisoma always begin to find the skin of Discus irresistible and can do considerable damage to the Discus.
Are you keeping a domestic Discus strain or one of the 3 wild species?
I am only working with wild Discus now but I have raised domestic Discus commercially.
I find that Discus appreciate some currents in their tank so long as you do not over do it.
Hi apistomaster,
I’d like to thank you for taking the time to share your huge experience with me and others. I’ll definitely look at the species you mentioned as well.
I’m pretty much a rookie as a fishkeeper, having had a 250 l community tank for 2 years now. A year ago, I decided to try my luck with discus and tried to accommodate the tank to (commercially bred) discus (by raising temp., basically). Unfortunately I had no luck, the first 3 specimens died over the course of a few months without obvious signs of disease except turning dark, refusing to eat, hide and die. The next 2 did the same. Therefore I decided not to try this approach anymore – I suspect that the tank was overcrowded for this species (?) though my other common fish were doing fine (red neons, gouramis, cory’s and common ancistrus). I have decided to go for a “nearly” species tank for discus (i.e. discus and catfishes) – and I think I will start with commercially bred specimens (I assume they may be easier to keep?), and I’m planning to establish a 530 L tank at tp 29C and using peat in the filter. I’m thinking the problem partly was due to “underfiltration”, so for this tank I was thinking of the Eheim Pro3 2080. Do you think that would be an overkill? My tapwater is hard (dH 18-24), but I hope the peat will do the trick (?) or do you think rev. osmosis would be needed?
Thanks a lot, Hans
I have not kept Discus, but I understand that some discus are better than others. Buying from a GOOD supplier is critical - just buying them from the nearest shop may not be such a great idea - better to try someone who specializes in discus. Good water quality is more important (particularly for bred variants) than particularly water parameters.
Hi Mats,
- Good advice (re:dealer). However, I have complete confidence in my dealer, he's a discus aficionado, so I'm confident the fish were all right when they left the store. With respect to the water parameters - I just spoke to him and he was very much in concordance with your advice. thanks a lot for your comments,
Hans
Hi Hans, Actually domestic Discus have greatly increased tolerance to higher pH and Hardness than wild fish due to almost 6 decades of selective breeding. But your water is very hard even for the modern domestics. In spite of that I think you made some common mistakes made by beginners. You should begin with at least 6 Discus keeping by following time proven methods which include using a bare bottom tank and allow at least 10 US gallons per Discus. You should keep them at 84*F/28.5*C and adopt and maintain a regime of water changes of about 2/3 of the water every 4th day and try to stay with this schedule as well as you can. Try to select young Discus but old enough to have more resilience than very small fish. I recommend beginning with juveniles about 7 or 8 cm/~3 inches in diameter. Prices begin to get too high if you buy them much larger and discus grow so fast it is a waste of money to spend more than is necessary. They still need to be fed about 4 times a day at this size but if some days all you can do is 3 feedings that is fine. Once they have grown an inch/2.54 cm you can reduce the frequency to 3 feedings a day. Use a high quality pellet type food specially formulated for Discus and plenty of frozen blood worms and frozen black mosquito larvae. Use at least one feeding of a fresh frozen food every day. If live foods are available you should use them as often as is practical for you.
It may be hard to accept the use of a bare bottom tank but it is important at the first stages that your tank is easily cleaned at every water change. You can use a few potted plants like Echindorus bleheri, the broad leaf Amazon sword plant, and use some floating frog bit or water sprite because discus like having some areas of over head cover. You can add some branches of aquarium safe wood to make a more aesthetic appearance. Many people always keep their Discus in such a set up all their life but even a sprinkling of white pool filter sand, which is quartz, may be used in a layer only 1 cm thick without loosing the advantages of the bare bottom and to make the tank more appealing. The idea behind this simple set up is to make it easier to keep the tank clean because of the heavy, frequent daily feedings and make those water changes because that is how the growth inhibiting metabolic waste products are kept diluted! If you want to keep Discus in a planted tank it is best to do most of the growing out of the Discus in the simpler set up but when Discus are about a year old, at least 5 inches/13 cm and need only 3 feedings a day, they can be added to a planted tank. You always must allow them at least 10 US gallons per fish and use the net gallons in your calculations allowing for the volume of water displaced by a layer of substrate. Be sure to add gallons for any tank mates that may be sharing the planted tank.
The water changing regime you have become accustomed to is something that Discus will always require.
As a side benefit all your other fish will do better too.
You need to choose potential tank mates with care. They should be species which are not aggressive and they must be comfortable at the warm temperatures discus require.
There are many great fish which meet these criteria so you won't feel like your choices are limited. We have already discussed some of the best catfish which do well with Discus but other good tank mates are many of the Tetras, Silver Hatchetfish, Pencilfish and SA Dwarf Cichlids.
Among the best Dwarf Cichlids are the common Blue Rams, another and often very reasonably priced beautiful species is the Lyretail Checkerboard Cichlid, Dicrossus filamentosus and many species of Apistogramma do well in planted Discus tanks, A. agassizii and A. trifasciata being a couple I recommend but it is better to have a trio of only one Apistogramma species and choose any others from one of those unrelated species already mentioned above.
I have left an elephant in the room so far which needs to be discussed. Your water is very hard.
It would be desirable for you to be able to reduce the hardness by using about at least a 50/50 tap water and Reverse Osmosis water blend as your standard water. If you can possibly afford to do this then by all means do so. However, I don't underestimate the adaptability of domestic Discus and you may not need to go to this extra expense and work but once your Discus pair and begin to spawn you will have to use softer water in order to have good hatches, Very hard water can reduce or event prevent the eggs hatching. You may not intend to breed your Discus but if you care for them well you will get a pair or two and you may change your mind. It is hard not to try raising Discus once your have raised some juveniles to adults and they have begun breeding.
It is best to avoid buying fish from most shops because there are only a few shop owners who love Discus and care enough to properly provide for their needs. A good juvenile Discus entering a fish store environment are often treated the same as any other fish they stock which means they are often kept too cool and are not fed well enough. It is best to avoid buying Discus from shops except from a shop owner who loves Discus and cares enough to provide for their needs. A good juvenile Discus entering a fish store encounters many stressors at a very vulnerable stage in their development. However, there are shop owners who love discus and know how to care for them and if you find one of these shops then they deserve your business but if you can't find such a shop check out Discus forum sponsors and hobbyist breeders with fish to sell. It may take less than a week in a shop with no experience or disregard to their needs with discus to do enough damage through neglect to have permanent adverse affects on any fish you buy from them which are usually impossible to overcome.
Hi Larry, Thanks so much for your thorough and comprehensive review, which I have read with much interest. I will pay close attention to your advices and I'm prepared to put a lot of effort into the project, so I'll try to do it right this time. I will start out with a bare bottom with wood and a couple of potted plants. Best wishes, Hans
Remember that if you include some caves in your Discus grow out tank you can keep your Loricaridae with your Discus and enjoy them both while you wait for your Discus to get large enough to do well in your future planted tank.
Larry, - Good idea, I'll do that. Actually, I was planning of also installing a background (being able to clean behind that, too) since I was planning to convert the bare bottom grow-out tank (i.e. with background, wood, potted plants) to the final planted display tank when the discus were ready. This due to space - and financial - restrictions. Would the discus be tolerant of the mess of adding the bottom layer and do the planting etc. while they're in the tank? If I'm lucky and can establish a healthy shoal of out-grown discus, will I be able to later add a couple of additional specimes of say 4 inches of size to the display tank, or will they have poor odds to make it among grown-ups?
I'll post a follow-up in some months of the outcome. BTW: Would in be OK with you if I send you an PM if I run into trouble?
Best wishes, Hans
) Loricariidae (e.g. panaques etc.). The size of those in the ballpark of 15 to max. 30 cm of length each. Any suggestions of species that goes well with these conditions and are not too difficult to handle or find would be very much appreciated. I've tried to search the forum for a similar question, and I apologize if the topic has already been covered.
