What Syno am I?

DutchFry · Post by **DutchFry** » 05 Nov 2009, 11:26

Hello there,

a friend of mine has 3 of these, he's been keeping these for over three years now. He would like to know which species it is.

Thanks in advance!

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 05 Nov 2009, 12:24

First instinct was - it does look close, and has the same shaped humeral process, but not being a Syno expert, I could be totally wrong!
Martin

[Mod edit: Fix name - Synodontis robbiana is not valid --Mats]

Post by **Birger** » 05 Nov 2009, 13:50

First instinct was Synodontis robbiana - it does look close, and has the same shaped humeral process

My thoughts as well, the dirty glass unfortunately makes it difficult to see just how spotted it is .

jippo · Post by **jippo** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:47

Definetely robbiana, genuine one.

DutchFry · Post by **DutchFry** » 05 Nov 2009, 20:57

Thanks a lot!

DutchFry · Post by **DutchFry** » 06 Nov 2009, 10:32

Guys,

just reported back to the friend of mine. coincidentally the other two Syno's seem to fit the bill of S. robbiana. They are much smaller than the fish in the picture. S. robbiana gets 105 mm SL. The fish in the picture is well over 25 cm TL!

So, with this new info, any guesses about the above pictured ?

Peterbilt · Post by **Peterbilt** » 06 Nov 2009, 10:37

I'm the friend DutchFry talks about and I thank you all for your effort of identification of this syno.

However, for 2 of the 3 syno's you are all correct. Those are definately the robbiana as I will show you with some pictures of them.
The third one (the one posted here in the first place) is somewhat different from the other 2. He (or she) is much more different in lenght, hight and spotted than the other 2. This one is more than over 105mm long and is (a little guess) about 170-200mm in lenght. The net i'm using on the photo is 125mm (12,5cm) from side to side and even then the syno doesn't fit in.

Also the hight is different. The best way to show you is to let you see pictures of the other 2. Then you can see for your self that it is different.

The pictures of the other 2 (old pictures, but better something than nothing I guess):

Here you can clearly see the spots on the syno's which look similar to the robbiana. The other one has much less of this spots and looks much more black.

I am currently trying to find more pictures for you all for a better identification (I have some on my camera stored, and some on a CD-R) so that I can, hopefully, give a better picture of the syno. I'm trying to upload them as soon as possible.

DutchFry · Post by **DutchFry** » 06 Nov 2009, 10:39

Hey Johan

welcome to PC!

170 to 200 mm it is, if you say so!

still this is much larger than S. robbiana

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 06 Nov 2009, 10:51

the biggest problem is that like certain Tanganyikan Synodontis species, the "nigrita" is a mess.

there are at least 3 or 4 distinct species within this group.

in the catelog or example there are already 2 very easily separatable species shown within the one entryof synodontis nigrita.

1 is a small species that is quite pale and has few spots. this fish is occasionally imported.

the other is a very regular brownish fish with many spots. it already has many spots as a juvenile and those increase when it matures. this is the one wich gets huge and bulky; it can and does pass the 8" with ease.
large older specimen of this species can be found in almost every LFS.

however; fishes of the smaller pale few spotted variety will NEVER turn dark, grow many more spots and turn in the large brownish fish.
they are separate species.

wich one is the true nigrita? i have no idea

then there is robbianus. this species is very dark, but one of the characteristics is that it too stays fairly small; 5" or so (6" TL) is about it. another wichis easily seen is the elongated head.

the "big un" has a high profile and a much shorter head; it has the same headshape as
Synodontis eupterus.

a few links to clarify things:
the "small nigrita" :
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=4239

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=2308

the "big nigrita"
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=6291

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=7503

compare the lastpicture with the headprofile of Synodontis robbianus:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=8832

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... age_id=901

I'm also pretty sure that this is a juvenile or half grown specimen of the "big nigrita" and not of robbianus; compare headshape and spottiness:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=6996

however, it is in the robbianus entry.

these larger brown Syno's are very hard to identify.

Peterbilt · Post by **Peterbilt** » 06 Nov 2009, 11:07

Here are the other pictures I could find on the camera. All of those are taken on the same moment as the already posted pictures in the start of this message.
I haven't sized them so I hope it is easier to identify him (or her).

Post by **Birger** » 06 Nov 2009, 13:39

Sid is spot on with this...that is as much as you will get as far as an identification at this time.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 06 Nov 2009, 14:50

The robbiana/nigrita/or something else problem is a difficult one. In the shops you sometimes find what appear to be other species mixed in with nigrita and being sold as them, but finding out what they actually are isn't always easy.

Peterbilt · Post by **Peterbilt** » 06 Nov 2009, 16:11

@ Sidguppy: So, if I understand correctly the pictures of Robannia and Nigrita are a bit mixed up. With the photo's I have given you it is not possible to identify the syno, but you are almost certain that it is one of those? I'm asking this because I wonder more and more if it is actually one of those 2. He (or she) doesn't look like either one because the build of the body is much more stretched than the pictures shown on planetcatfish. Of course i'm not an expert (more like a noob in this case) so I can only wonder if you are correct. But for as I can tell by looking at the pictures and my memory of the syno it doesn't look like either one.

Perhaps I am mistaken and fooled by the pictures, but I wonder if there is no other syno which would look like mine than those 2 species.

@ Birger: Thanks. What would be needed to identify this syno? Better pictures perhaps?

@ chrysichthys: Thats the whole problem you put right on the spot. Most stores around here simply put the wrong cards on the windows or don't even give a name to a fish. If you even ask about it they have no clue about the name and even give you wrong information about the fish (no, this one stays smaller than 100mm. No, this one doesn't eat specific foods. Yeah right!

).

The problem now is that I have a syno which I would love to give a good home, but I don't even know what to feed him (or her).

I thank everyone for their help so far, unfortunately I have not find any better pictures. I even don't know if I can catch the syno again for better pictures, but I will try if you can tell me which one it really is.

Post by **Birger** » 07 Nov 2009, 04:13

@ Birger: Thanks. What would be needed to identify this syno? Better pictures perhaps?

As Sid pointed out more research is needed to sort these out...you have gone as far as you can with the available information. Granted there have been a few syno's newly described in the last few years there is still much work to be done and many unknown variants that may well turn out to be new species. This particular group has some of those unknown variants.

The problem now is that I have a syno which I would love to give a good home, but I don't even know what to feed him (or her).

The fish itself should be fairly durable eating pretty well anything...A varied diet is best of the usual live and frozen foods and possibly would get used to the odd treat of veggies, I often feed my riverine syno's veggies, green beans being easy to grab a few and throw them in the tank.

Birger

jippo · Post by **jippo** » 15 Nov 2009, 15:01

Oh it's a big one

. Then it can't be robbiana. It really look smaller at photo and looks very much like robbiana. But as Sid said it is a mess with these brown synos. And there are quite many "failed" hybrid synos that are brown as well.

First one is 5-7 year old wild catch male and is still about 10cm(TL), as you can see it is very dark. When I got it I could saw some black spots on its body but it was already very dark then.

Second one is female and I think it's hormone bred robbiana from russia. We got quite much these to Finland few years ago from russia. This one is about 12cm(TL) and is about same age than the other one.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=9668

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=9669

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