L046 breeding in larger tanks and larger colonies?

[thezebraman]

I just wondered if anybody have tried to breed L046 in large tanks with a lot of zebras (30-60)?
Do they have to be kept in small groups to breed or can they be kept many together as long as there are plenty of hiding-places and many caves?

[MatsP]

As far as I understand, they can be bred in larger colonies. I don't think I've heard of anyone having more than about 10-15 in a tank.

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Mats

[thezebraman]

Would it be negative to keep them with a few discus if the tank is big enough?

[MatsP]

Aside from the L046 wanting more current/flow in the tank than I'd expect discus would like, I see no problem with that combination.

--
Mats

[drd]

I heard of one swede in helsingborg who dropped 50 young and adult zeb´s in a 1400 litre tank and there are new babies all the time.
Obviosly thats working

[apistomaster]

I would not try keeping Discus in a large H.zebra breeding colony tank but not for the same reason MatsP suggests. Discus don't mind having quite a bit of current in their tanks. I am something of a Discus specialist and have bred domestic varieties commercially but I personally prefer wild Discus for myself. I keep my wild Discus in tanks equipped with a main wet/dry filter running at 10 to 12 times the nominal volume of their tank's capacity. In addition to the wet/dry, I also equip each Discus tank with an Eheim Classic 2217. I like the Eheim because it can "polish" the water better than a wet/dry filter does alone. Large flows through Discus tanks can be divided so the enter from opposite direction, use decorative wood to deflect an disperse flows so in the end there is no particular directionality to the flows.

I have already made the mistake of trying to keep H.zebra with Discus. The zebras simple do not come out and eat enough. They feed primarily at night and will not compete successfully with Discus to get their share of food. One small species that does do well when kept with Discus is Peckoltia sp L134. I added 12 1-1/2-inch F1 L134 to my 125 gal wild S.haradi display tank a year ago and they are now 2-3/4-inches long. They will come out at feeding time and claim their share of the food and do so in the middle of adult wild Discus feeding at the same pile of pellet food lying on the bottom. H. zebra will not do that. I have had Bushy Nose plecos regularly spawning in Discus tanks and the Discus do not hesitate to eat newly released pleco fry.

I generally don't think it is a good idea to have any fish in a pleco breeding set up although there are some exceptions to that rule I have tried which worked out well. For example: I keep one of my F1 Sturisoma aureum in my L134, L260 and L333 breeding tanks and with my 10 juvenile H.zebra grow out tank to keep the algae cleaned up and to help clean up food the plecos don't finish eating. The Sturisoma will not eat small pleco fry. I also have some cherry shrimp colonies established in these breeding tanks as further clean up aides. I have to thin out the shrimp colonies to prevent them from becoming to numerous. If allowed to reach excessive numbers the shrimp are prone to population crashes when summer time high temperatures raise water temperatures too high to support so many shrimp. the shrimp will die back to sustainable numbers under these conditions but not the plecos.

I don't see any reason why a large H.zebra colony would not do well in their own large tank supplied with sufficient caves and plenty of hiding places for their fry.

[Haavard Stoere]

Large colonies of Hypancistrus zebra works very well. The 312 liter tank below contained about 65 in different sizes. The photo is made up from several photos taken during an hour. the picture is fake, but it gives an impression close to what it looked like with two eyes and small head movements. The fish got a bit more frayed fins due to territorial disputes, but not severely. Spreading the fish into several smaller tanks improved productivity, but I sometimes miss the sight of hords of zebras coming out to eat.

[thezebraman]

Thanks for good advice!
Is zebras known to eat their babies, or do they leave them alone?
Is it recommended to let the babies stay with their parents to grow?

[apistomaster]

I don't know whether adult H. zebra ever eat their own fry but I doubt it.
I have suspected older L260 fry, ~2cm size, of having eaten eggs and larvae despite the male standing guard.
I don't have any proof but it has crossed my mind that the brooding males will tolerate youngsters to enter while he is brooding over eggs and newly hatched larvae and not prevented predation on the brood by younger juveniles.
I am interested in hearing what others have to say about this.
For practical purposes, there are no behavioral differences between L260 and L46.

[Haavard Stoere]

I don`t think Hypancistrus species kills each other on a regular basis, but I have heard about cases where they have trapped a victim in a cave and chewed the victim to death. I

One reason for this might be that we supply the tanks with to many breeding style caves that are sealed in one end. Only the breeding male/males needs this style of cave. The rest of the fish can utilize spaces under rocks or wood that they dig under or any other shelter that are less likely to trap other fish. In my experience my catfish (Panaque, Hypancistrus, Hemiancistrus, Baryancistrus, Leporacanthicus, Pseudacanthicus) actually dislikes breeding caves as shelter when not breeding. They much prefer naturally occurring spaces among objects in the tank. That is if they have a choice of course.

Dominant males are very tolerant to juveniles, and as Larry mentions he will even let them into the cave while guarding eggs or fry. I have no idea whether or not they do damage (unntil now I assumed not). Sub adults have small territorial disputes almost constantly, but it is quite harmless.

When I kept my whole H. zebra stock in a 312 liter there was usually just one male that reproduced at a time. On two occations two males guarded eggs and fry at the same time. At the time I had 7 adults around half of them male+lots of halfgrown and juvenile fish.

[thezebraman]

But how old or big must a Zebra be to be able to breed? Are they sexually mature at the age of 2 or 3?

[Haavard Stoere]

They are more likely to breed at the age of three than two.

[nvcichlids]

Haarvard, Will you please come set up a tank for me? lol I am extremely jealous of not only how beautiful your set-ups are, but what fish you keep. I will be jealous til the day I die.

[TwoTankAmin]

I had a spawning group of 13 in a 30 breeder and for my first fry hunt I had 53 fry.

I have 17 in a 33 long setting up to be my 2nd group. 15 are my own F1 and 2 are wc adults gotten at 1.75 inches in 04. Those two adults were parked with a couple of discus for about 2 years and did fine.



I would not try to spawn zebras with discus as I assume the discus would love to snack on tiny zebras if they could. I prefer to spawn zebras in a species tank.

Most breeders I know, Including myself, will tell you that the fry grow faster when left in the breeder tank than when moved to a growout.

[apistomaster]

I tried to keep five 1-1/2 inch Zebra with 10 adult Heckel Discus. The Zebras were starving in that tank. It was a planted display tank. Not a couple zebras with a pair in a bare bottom tank.

[jsalas623]

Wow im so jealous!! Very good info here!!

[900801]

@Haavard Stoere: How do you harvest the fries?

[Barbie]

He hasn't posted for a couple years, so I'm not sure you'll get a reply to your question. This thread had been resurrected.

Barbie