Multipunctatus Spawn

[DJRansome]

I witnessed a spawn today. I had no idea when they laid eggs that they released an entire cloud! I saw two clouds today, and they were snapped up by the mbuna. I'm hoping a couple were grabbed by females who will hold them and not just fish who had a snack!

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

are you sure your catfish are

Synodontis multipunctata

? Maybe they are

Synodontis lucipinnis

or

Synodontis sp(2)

since breeding behaviour sounds strange. I've hear about multipunctata spawning like that but it is not often. Eggs were rather big? Like cichlids eggs or rather much more smaller?

Regards.

[DJRansome]

They were sold to me as wild caught multipunctatus and they look exactly like the picture in your first link. I also have Lucipinnis...not the same definitely.

This is the first time I have ever seen them spawn. Maybe they have had to store up the eggs forever, LOL? You mean they usually drop 1-3 eggs at a time like the cichlids?

The eggs looked exactly like the mbuna eggs the Demasoni were dropping. The Demasoni were spawning on a vertical surface (the top of the in-tank Pangea background) and the multipunctatus joined in the act. At first I thought the mbuna exploded (released the cloud) or spit all the eggs she had already picked up. Demasoni females are small, however, and clutches are more like 10 eggs. Then I wondered if it was the catfish, and was able to see it a second time. I have 5 multi's...don't know if it was the same fish both times, or two females released.

[syno321]

Sounds like typical multipunctatus spawning behaviour. The demaisonii females can carry broods exceeding 40 under ideal conditions and at full size.

[worton[pl]]

Yup from second description it sounds like normal multipunctata spawning behaviours so congratulations!

Probably you will soon possess a group of cute, small cats ;). If females are still small it would be good to strip them pretty soon since catfish babies are much bigger that cichlids babies and can stuck in female's mouth.

Regards.

[DJRansome]

When should I strip to get catfish babies that are self-sufficient?

I just heard from the original owner of three of my five individuals, he bought them in 2001 full grown and they never spawned for him.

[Richard B]

I just heard from the original owner of three of my five individuals, he bought them in 2001 full grown and they never spawned for him.

Sometimes there has to be a certain set of conditions for successful spawnings - miss one out & they'll not produce. Also were the 3 all the same sex or different ?

[drpleco]

I used to strip my multies at one week to ten days- they usually were transparent up until then but got a tinge of color at one week. At three weeks they're fully colored and about 1/2" long. They're 3/4" at a month - it's amazing how fast they grow initially. Stripping under a week is risky and I had losses when I tried that. After a week, I rarely had losses.

Worton is right about them being too big and getting stuck. If you let them be released naturally, sometimes they will outgrow the female cichlid's mouth and she will be unable to spit them. At that point, it's very difficult to get them out. Before I had things figured out, I let a female fuelleborni hold for 30 days. She couldn't spit the catfish and got so weakened that another female killed her. After that, I started stripping at two weeks, and then one. I didn't have any losses except when I stripped one after 4 days (an experiment) and ended up losing about 50% of the fry.

One thing to keep in mind - the baby multies will first eat the cichld eggs and then turn on eachother. I believe that this is accountable for their rapid growth rate inside the host mouth, since they're better able to synthesize proteins to grow when they're eating the same stuff they're made of. If you strip at one week, you might get 30 cats. At two weeks, 15, and at three weeks, only three or four. They will be huge, though. My best hosts were pseudotropheus elongatus (likoma) and yellow labs. P. saulosi learned pretty quickly to eat the cat eggs as did the fuelleborni. The elongatus, a very aggressive spawner, never really caught on. I imagine that your demasoni will be similar to the elongatus. I preferred mbuna as hosts since they were more aggressive spawners and seemed more oblivious than haps. they have smaller mouths, but you can still get a good number of cats if you strip early. My setup was a 125g tank with about 150 pounds of lace rock and 60 mbuna. I had about 7-8 different breeding groups of 2m5-7f. I had four pairs of multies and at least two spawned (they produced fry that were initially different colors of brown - but eventually turned out the same).

I used wardley shrimp pellets as a first food since they dissolved to a eatable size and were cheap. Decapped brine shrimp eggs, cyclopeeze, or bbs would work as well but are not as easy to come by. i imagine that flake would be good, too, but I never tried it.

Good luck!!

[DJRansome]

The first owner had 3 and I don't know mix of male/female. The second owner added one cat to the group and he believed there were both males and females. I also added one cat to the group, so maybe that was the charm. I've never really tried to sex them.

Too bad we don't have xray vision to see what's going on inside the cichlid mouths!

I usually don't save the cichlid fry and need to remove all the rocks in the tank to catch the Mom's for stripping. But maybe I'll do that in 2 weeks just to see.

[Richard B]

There's always a trick to catch fish without taking out the decor - one of the simplist is to put a real large net in the tank for a day or so so the fish get used to it (6-8" from one end of the tank). Then feed at the net end with sinking food close to the end glass. This gives you the chance to net fish as they feed. Hopefully those carrying join in to see what's going on.

[DJRansome]

I found a 1/2" baby in the tank today, so obviously I have not been paying close enough attention!

My tank has too many rocks to fit such a large net anywhere near the substrate. When I redo decor, I always swear I will leave more room, and I never do, LOL.

[pturley]

If you have an egg tumbler you can strip almost immediately. Strip the female cichlids in 3-4 days you'll recover most of the multipunctata eggs (freshly hatched) at 80degrees F. Survival rates even when stripped this early are still very high, in clean water well over 85% IME.

You can also siphon up abandoned eggs at the spawning site with a gravel vac. In a tumbler, a large portion of these will hatch as well.

If you wait until they form up a bit more, you'll only pull a small fraction of the total number of catfish eggs.

Your survival rate will be nearly 100% from that point on however.

Once they are hatched, very soon after they hatch, feed tons of brine shrimp nauplii 2-3 times per day and you'll have loads of catfish to sell.

BTW: I paid for my senior year in college IN CASH from breeding these fish... ...no joke!

[worton[pl]]

Hello,

drgold how you catch your cichlids in so well decorated tank? I've been trying many, many different methods and only removing decorations bings effects . My fish are intelligent

Regards.

[drpleco]

I just took out all the rocks. I had a couple large rubbermaid bins to collect the rocks, and I picked them every few weeks. It seemed that the mbuna got down to spawning all around the same time, so I just stripped everyone at once. Sometimes the baby multies were a week older than others, so I'd seperate them for a week or so.

It was a pain in the butt, but I just told myself that each multi I caught was worth $10. That was good motivation.

[exasperatus2002]

How big are your multies when they started to spawn?

[DJRansome]

I don't think it was a size issue, but either age or gender. My multies have been in captivity (some of them) for 9 years and they never spawned for 2 other owners. The first had 3 of them (and some others) for 7 years and sold them. The second owner had the 3 and added one for 3 years and they never spawned. I added one more and they spawned after a year.

Interestingly, they did not spawn the first year in a 72" tank with malawi mbuna and a group of Lucipinnis. But within a month after being moved to a 48" tank with the same cichlids but the Lucipinnis went elsewhere, they spawned. I wonder if it's harder for the spawning cichlids to avoid them in the smaller tank?

Since I posted this I found another sibling in the big tank so I have 2 babies now. They start big and grow fast!