Sorry for the super quick intro but I really need your help on an urgent matter. Over the weekend I slowly added 7 L239 Blue Panaques to my tank. I noticed they had some whitish spots on them and called the store to inquire - they replied it was a normal discoloration from being scared. Yesterday the spots were still there so I decided to give the place a visit where I was informed the fish actually have a fungus... They sold me some Pimafix and told me to treat my tank for 7 days. Last night I put the first dose in. At some point today it dawned on me that I might need to remove my Purigen from the filter so I called them back to find out. The guy told me to remove the Purigen and replace it with charcoal??? The Pimafix bottle says to REMOVE charcoal from your filter for best results so obviously this person doesn't know what he's saying... I just got home from work and some of the fish are covered with little minuscule white spots and I'm freaking out!!
Does anyone know what I am supposed to do?
Can my filter run with just the foam and the filtering matter for a full week?
HELP PLEASE!!
My tank: 80 gallons
Planted: Yes
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10
PH: 7.4 (I know - it needs to go down... waiting on my CO2 reactor)
Water changes: Twice/per week
Thank you for your help.
Last edited by aaki on 13 Jun 2007, 05:10, edited 1 time in total.
As no one else with more experience of fungus or whitespot on plecis has replied, I will, but I am sure someone else will come along soon.
Are you sure it is fungus, little small white spots sounds more like ick or whitespot. Google both and try and establish which you have first.
If it is fungus you would be better to move the new fish to a separate tank for treatment, but if Whitespot you are going to need to treat the whole tank. Purchase a remedy for whichever ailment your fish have and follow the instructions carefully. NOTE some cats do not like Whitespot treatments or if fungus, salt is not an option for cats. Make sure what you purchase is suitable for the fish in the tank. Try and get some advise from someone in a petshop that knows what they are talking about, not he genius that told you to use charcoal with Primafix.
One immediate thing you can do if it is whitespot is increase the water temp to 30C over a day or so (I am assuming it is already 25/26C) The whitspot parasite can not complete it's lifecycle at 30C. After a week reduce the temp 1C a day back to your normal level. Ensure the other occupants of the tank can handle the increase.
I strongly suggest you quaratine your new fish in a separate tank in future for at least two weeks, makes spotting problems easier and treatment cheaper and more effective.
Thank you so much for your reply. The small little mini white spots have appeared only today. They weren't there when I left for work this morning and not all of the Blues have it. The fungus on the other hand they all have. Does this really mean I have both ick and fungus in my tank at present?
OK well I looked into ick or white spot and it seems that's definitely what they have. At present I only have the 7 Blues and 15 Tetras in the tank. Can the Tetras handle 30 degrees?
Yes the tetras should be ok, which tetras are they? Most tropical fish will handle higher temps for a limited period provided you bring up the temp slowly and lower it again even slower. you may need to increase water circulation with an additional airstone etc. as at higher temps water holds less oxygen.
Raising the temp will deal with the Whitespot, but you will still need to treat the fungus. Sounds like these fihs were in a bad way when they were sold, I think I would be asking the shop for the meds free if I was you.
All of the fish are still alive and seem to be doing good. They're moving about and eating. I did a 25% water change last night and have slowly raised the temp to 31 degrees. They seem to be taking the heat pretty well for now. I'm keeping the neons open for only 2 hours a day in order to lower the stress level on the fish. I've also purchased a Diatom filter today I'll have running 24/7 which is supposed to remove ich in the water and help some with the oxygenation and purification of the water. The rain maker seems to be producing enough oxygen as the snails have not moved up to the top of the tank on the quest for air. Considering I caught it before the white spots had time to burst and multiply I might manage to get in the clear without any casualties...
I can guarantee you NOTHING is entering my tank again without getting quarantined for a full month - no matter where it comes from and how long they claim it's been quarantined. A newbie's lesson learned the hard way...
As for the fungus I started treating the tank with Pimafix and am on day 3 of the treatment. My only worry is the possibility that fungus and/or Pimafix don't do very well in such warm water. Does anyone know?
Thank you for all your help in this difficult time.
IMO, if the fish have lived this long, back off on additional meds, continue daily 25% water changes, don't worry so much about pH as stability, and keep an eye on them. Once you aren't seeing any signs of ich for 5-7 days, reduce the temperature a couple degrees a day and enjoy your fish. Water changes cure MANY evils. As long as these guys are eating and their eyes don't look sunken and abdomen drawn up, they usually live. I've received them so stressed and starved they couldn't maintain an upright position and had them make it. Good luck with yours!
Thank you for your reply Barbie. I feel more confident things will get better now. As you suggested I won't add anymore Pimafix and just let the Diatom filter and hight temp do their thing.
June5
- Apparition of Ich in the pm.
- Pimafix fungus treatment added.
June 6
- Temperature rise to 30 degrees.
- 10% water change.
June 7
- More specimens affected by Ich but on a positive note the earlier ones affected doing better.
- Pimafix fungus treatment added.
- Temperature rise to 31 degrees.
- Diatom Filter added.
- 25% water change.
June 8
- Less Ich on Plecos but some Ich on Tetras.
- Temperature kept at 31 degrees.
- Pimafix fungus treatment stopped.
- Diatom Filter change.
- 25% water change.
June 9
- Ich still present but in reasonably small quantity.
- Temperature raised to 32 degrees.
- Diatom Filter change am and pm.
- Complete clean-up of tank and substrate with Diatom.
- 25% water change.
June 10
- Ich still present but in reasonably small quantity.
- Temperature slowly lowered to 30 degrees (32 was too high for Tetras - lost 4)
- Diatom Filter change.
- 30% water change + 1 tsp. kosher salt/US gal administered.
- Turned the Tunze underwater power head off.
- 1 small water pump half hitting the surface and 1 air pump w/long air rock were added for extra oxygen in the tank.
June 11
- Ich still present but in smaller quantity.
- Tetras are doing good and everyone seems to have taken the salt addition well.
- Temperature kept at 30 degrees.
- Power head still off.
The Blues seem to have no problem handling the high temperature - even at 32 degrees. The Tetras on the other hand were doing great until I raised to 32 which was obviously overkill. Poor little guys, I felt so bad...
Food wise, I'm not sure if all the Blues are eating but at least someone seems to LOVE zucchini, my Anubias are relished for sure cause everyday I have a few extra see through leaves, and I've been rotating blood worms, mosquito larvae and brine shrimp. They have no interest in the food pellets whatsoever though. I even tried stuffing some in a zucchini piece with no success. The Tetras have shown a complete disinterest in the flakes ever since I've raised the temperature. I've been feeding them worms, brine shrimps and larvae but I'm scared of them getting constipated on a solely meat based diet...
There is so much conflicting info on Ich all over the Net I was just at a loss as to which route to take and then some. The fish store kept on pushing me to throw the malachite green stuff in but I just couldn't bring myself to do it with all the talk on cancer and tumors. In consequence I chose to go the natural route, I started with just the temperature rise but after losing the 4 Tetras and not seeing a big enough amelioration I decided to throw the 1/2 dosage of salt in. The more I kept reading on salt treatment the more I came to realize the no salt for scaleless fish was probably more of a myth than reality. Granted I'm certain a full dose would kill them and that is probably where the myth started off... I am hopeful the half dose of salt for 3 days along with the high temp will do the trick. I'll give them some melafix after the 3 days to help them heal.
This afternoon I'm going to do another major clean-up of the substrate before changing my Diatom filter. I'm wondering if I should remove the better half of my plants (not the Anubias obviously) as I'm a little worried they're offering extra shelter to the Ich or is the salt going to automatically kill anything that's not on the fish? I'm just worried of freaking them out if I remove some and stressing them even more than they already are.
I can't wait for this to be over, I feel like my life has been hijacked and I'm on 24/7 anxiety right now. I have to save these little ones, I chose to put them in there - I gotta come through for them. The little buggers are taking it like champs though. The other night one of them was dancing in the current, it was really quite beautiful to watch...
I would like to extend big thank yous to Barbie on her numerous and incredibly informative posts on Ich and salt treatment for Ich on this forum - they have been sooo useful.
Once again thank you for your support and I'll keep you guys posted on developments.
Just a quick note that I didn't see covered above. Ich, while in it's reproductive stage, normally settles deep into the substrate. I know that you mention regular cleanings, but I would advise actually cleaning the substrate every time you clean the filter. This is assuming that you are using one of the diatom filters which has the ability to connect to a siphon hose. There is always a risk of stripping the biological filter by doing this, but it sounds like you have several filters on this tank and the others should help maintain the "good" bacteria.
Also, even after the ick is no longer visible, I would advise treating the tank as if still infected for at least 2 weeks. I try to follow the same homeopathic cures that you are attempting when possible, and have had ick pop back up as much as 2 weeks after the last visible cyst disappeared because I was lulled into a false sense of security.
As to water temp, the blues will last forever at the higher temps. I've only kept them in systems with 31C, 88F, temperatures, and they seem to prefer it. They won't even condition to spawn if kept below 27C.
Best of luck,
Larry Vires
Impossible only means that somebody hasn't done it correctly yet.
Thank you for the tips Larry, it's nice to see that I'm not crazy by insisting to go the more natural route to kill these white horrors Mad
I would like to know your opinion though regarding the substrate cleaning. Do I need to go all the way to the glass on the bottom of the aquarium? Will this cause ammonia to be released into the water?
Also regarding the filter; do I keep the foam and the peat in my canister filter while running with the Diatom? Does the canister filter harbor Ich as well?
Would you remove all pl*co caves, drift wood (keep in my mind the drift wood I have is almost 3ft long)? I'm scared that this may cause the guys to get really stressed, and be more susceptible to further strains of Ich. Also regarding the salt treatment; is the salt going to kill the Ich in it's theront state?
I'm sorry to ask so many questions but there is so much information on Ich out there that sometimes it comes across as muddy waters...
On a positive note after the 2 first days of the salt treatment the Blues have hardly any Ich left. Many of them are eating consistently and moving about the tank. Four of them seem to be so used to having humans moving around them they don't even scurry away any more.
Unfortunately I think that we may lose most of our Tetras though as many of them have lost a considerable amount of color due to the heat they experienced the other day. I also think that some may have Ich in their gills as they are breathing quite quickly. I'm having a hard time feeding them too. They want nothing of the flakes and for the last two feedings they spit the brine shrimp or worms back out. I'm thinking they might be constipated.
Again thank you for your reply, it's greatly appreciated.
