Tiger shovelnose catfish

Daxx999 · Post by **Daxx999** » 07 Jan 2006, 06:39

I have a 7'' tsn in a 55 gallon tank. I had him since he was about 3'' but its clear hes going to have to be moved to a huge tank. Ive kind of got attached to him so I want to make sure he gets a good home. If i give him to a lfs they probably will just sell him to someone with an even smaller tank then my 55. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to go with this? I thought about a public aquarium but i've read they might not take it.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 07 Jan 2006, 10:52

Hi. Welcome to the site.

To be honest they can't really be kept in any home aquaria. The minimum tank size to house these fish correctly is about 4X2X2 metres! As this fish easily reaches a metre it will need a tank of this size just to be able to turn round. This size tank is obviously not practical in the home!

You are also correct to assume that public aquaria won't accept them. Many thousands of these fish are imported each year, and aquaria are flooded with requests. By all means try though, you may be lucky.

Your options are basically this.........

1. Continue to maintain the fish in home aquaria, where it is very likely to die, as the filtration will not be able to cope with it's massive appetite.

2. Attempt to donate it to public aquaria.

3. Build an indoor heated pond. Obviously $$$$$$

4. Take the fish back to the LFS where, as you say, it will be sold to someone else who can't look after it.

5. Kill your fish

I'm afraid these options don't sound very appealing, but that's the reality of caring for a fish that can live for 30 years and grow to a metre long.

I really don't think these fish should be for sale!

Good luck though with it.

Some more info.....

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=10494

MIKE · Post by **MIKE** » 07 Jun 2006, 02:03

You might be able 2 buy a 150-200g tank and only put him in it

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Jun 2006, 13:45

MIKE wrote:You might be able 2 buy a 150-200g tank and only put him in it

Yeah, and that will work until the fish is around 18" long. What are you suggesting we do for the next 30 or so inches that this fish is genetically programmed to grow to? It's certainly better than a 55g tank, but it's nowehere near enough for the adult fish!

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Mats

taksan · Post by **taksan** » 07 Jun 2006, 16:36

For a couple of hundred dollars you can buy a 1200 gal plastic cattle tub .... stick it in the basement, add a pond filter and pond heater and presto ...a cheap way of keeping big fish.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Jun 2006, 16:57

taksan wrote:For a couple of hundred dollars you can buy a 1200 gal plastic cattle tub .... stick it in the basement, add a pond filter and pond heater and presto ...a cheap way of keeping big fish.

How deep is it? I'd presume that a fish that is a meter long would like a little more than a couple of dozen inches depth, and I also suspect that most cattle-farmers don't actually need to have tubs that the cows can drown themselves in...

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Mats

zenyfish · Post by **zenyfish** » 07 Jun 2006, 18:16

taksan wrote:For a couple of hundred dollars you can buy a 1200 gal plastic cattle tub .... stick it in the basement, add a pond filter and pond heater and presto ...a cheap way of keeping big fish.

This seems like a workable alternative. I've seen similiar ... retaining wall blocks stacked and rubber pond liner. Could be done relatively inexpensively.

taksan · Post by **taksan** » 08 Jun 2006, 03:15

MatsP wrote:
taksan wrote:For a couple of hundred dollars you can buy a 1200 gal plastic cattle tub .... stick it in the basement, add a pond filter and pond heater and presto ...a cheap way of keeping big fish.
How deep is it? I'd presume that a fish that is a meter long would like a little more than a couple of dozen inches depth, and I also suspect that most cattle-farmers don't actually need to have tubs that the cows can drown themselves in...

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Mats

About 4 feet deep and 10 feet across .... this is the easy cheap way of keeping big fish. You can get them bigger or smaller. Its easy to keep big catfish as long as you are prepared to only look at them from the top (white substrate for RTC's or you see nothing!). All this rubbish about keeping big catfish being difficult .... its not if your smart and care about providing them with the best enviroment possible all they need as a lot of water and a lot of filtration. The Agriculture and Aquaculture industries supply the means of keeping the water and the Koi industry supplies the means of filtration. All it requires is thinking beyond the square (tank) mentality. Even the mega fish like Piraiba can be kept using this system, Poly aquaculture tubs are about $1800 for 6000 gallons and go up to 30,000 gallons and you could easily keep the really big fellows in there forever. I've seen some really big Piraiba(8 foot long)in one of these poly aquaculture tubs and its fantastic. Far better then keeping big fish in a 200,300 or even 500 gallon retangular tank. Tanks cannot provide the room these fish really need and the round tubs offer far more effective swimming space and are also more compact floorspace wise.

Waldo · Post by **Waldo** » 10 Jun 2006, 17:22

I love the color of the cat however as said before it's gonna outgrow just about anything. However Where there are means there are ways. A pool takes about 2 day's to build and our 300g cost us around $300 for everything. There are also keepers all over the US that already have huge ponds and tanks already set up for them.

taksan · Post by **taksan** » 11 Jun 2006, 01:49

Yeah a good idea is to keep a eye of the farm supply stores for sales and stock clearences. I've seen the common 4500 gal aquaculture tubs go for as little as $450 all fully plumbed and big bioball tower filters for as little as $150. Its not at all difficult to supply these fish with the enviorment they require for a healthy happy life but they are not TANK fish. Actualy Tiger Shovelnoses are not nearly as bad as some other types because they don't actualy grow that big in total body volume compared to RTC's or jau's. So a TSN would proberbly do fine in a 500 gal Rubbermaid tub. The rule is generaly 1000gal per 40 pounds of fish.

Waldo · Post by **Waldo** » 11 Jun 2006, 05:18

Petsmart say's it's 2gallons / inch so a 2ft TSN should do fine in a 30g it's whole life! durrr

LimaShovel · Post by **LimaShovel** » 19 Jun 2006, 20:29

I had a TSN in a 75gal. till he was 18" then gave him to my Local Zoo. in there huge tank with some little red tails.

necrocanis · Post by **necrocanis** » 21 Jun 2006, 22:05

350 gal cattle trough, costs me $125. right now home to a 27 inch tsn x rtc hybrid. Depending on which species of TSN you get as to how big they will get, but all TSN will get to around 3ft at least. This cattle trough would house one comfortably for years.

necrocanis · Post by **necrocanis** » 21 Jun 2006, 22:13

just another note, my catfish never come to the top of the water unless i come in the room, and then it's for one of two things. a) they want food, or b) they wish for me to pet them. i would say that anthing over 2 ft deep would be fine. I know everyone in here will bash me and say it's too small, but realistically it is not. You can house big catfish in there, and they don't get injured as much as in glass squares. these troughs are really ideal for catfish. I put the current goind around in a circle and the catfish swim it like a natural river flow. they can swim in circle for hours and not run into a single clear piece of glass, and they can see the sides of the tank so they learn to avoid them better than glass. My cats rarely get spooked now. If you don't mind the top view it's the best choice! I don't mind at all, in fact it is awesome. i put stones all around mine in my basement, and put tropical plants up around it to enhance that amazon feel. going to make some fake native statues to go in there also. be creative if you do get a cattle trough do like i did and transform it into something more natural.

taksan · Post by **taksan** » 23 Jun 2006, 16:49

Yeah they r much better in tubs then tanks ... more natrual for them and basicaly unlimited swimming room if you get the current going circular. Seen some cheap poly 2400 gal cattle tubs that are 42 inches deep and had a tray designed to hold a windmill float valve or a well pump that woudl makea ideal habitat.
Basicaly all these people get crazy about keeping big pims but if you stick to the tub route you can do it easily, safely and cheaply while providing your fish with a far better living enviroment then in any tank.

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 03 Aug 2006, 21:06

I got my TSN last september. he moved from a 55 holding tank to a 75 for about a month, then to a 240. He's now in an 800 gallon DIY tank. He's about 16", very happy and healthy. He has no fear of me and redily eats from my hand. My opinion is that atleast a few people will dedicate time and effort to make the fish comfortable. That's better than most will do. I agree that there's a certain few fish that shouldn't be sold to the general public. Either that or they need to make sure the future owner is properly educated. Thanks to sites like these people are getting educated.
On a side note my tank is 14' long, 3' from front to back and 30" from top to bottom. In my opinion it's big enough for the catfish for his entire life. The whole set up cost me $1800 I bought the fish knowing full well how big he got and what I needed to do. It's a commitment that needs to be made when buying a big cat. Good luck with yours. What's your plan, what are you gonna do?

The tank:

redzebra24 · Post by **redzebra24** » 03 Aug 2006, 22:48

well u could do that ^^ or i saw a 1000g pond rubbermaid kinda thing for farms for little less than 250. it is 9ft dia and 2ft tall that would look sweet if you did that

Dick F. · Post by **Dick F.** » 04 Aug 2006, 00:00

Where would I look to find something like a 2400G Cattle Tub?

Tks;
Dick

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 04 Aug 2006, 01:19

Quality farm and fleet. Tractor supply. I wonder if the OP is watching pooping his pants?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 Aug 2006, 09:28

TheFishGuy wrote:On a side note my tank is 14' long, 3' from front to back and 30" from top to bottom. In my opinion it's big enough for the catfish for his entire life.

The Cat-eLog lists 41.3", and your tank is 36" wide. How can you say that this is sufficent for it's entire life? Or do you not expect your fish to reach it's full potential size for some reason?

In my opinion (yes, it's an opinion - but I think many would agree) the fish should have around 2x the it's length on the shorter side of the tank and 4x on the longer side. That would mean that you need to have a tank that is about 80" (6'6") wide and 160"(so you're alright there with 14' = 168") long for this fish... I can accept that you don't have the depth that matches the length of the fish, but that would ideally also need to be more than the length of the fish, at least 1.5x, ideally 2x.

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Mats

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 04 Aug 2006, 11:56

I made it three foot because fish can bend. It's not like its a torpedo or a submarine and it'll have to got back and forth to turn around. Besides the fact that it's a better environment than 90% of the TSN keepers out there. Atleast it'll have a better life than them. Not to mention if I've learned one thing keeping fish for 20 years it's this. The size of a fish is more like the owners opinion then fact. People don't have a clue how big 12" So they guess. I'm a carpenter and believe me if I say my fish is 16", it's 16". Most would look at it and say it was 2', they would be wrong. Also the "cat-elog is not the bible of catfish. Any quick search on the net by typing in tiger shovelnose catfish will reveal a whole slew of max sizes of the fish. Some places list the record length, that doesn't mean every single one is going to get that big. That being said, I'll be surprized if mine gets over 30". To say that a 3' fish cannot turn around in a 3' wide tank is just plain rediculous and you know it. Many years ago I purchased a TSN without doing a lick of research on it. I kept it in a 185 gallon tank with a LSN. They were best of friends, even when the TSN grew to two feet in a year. That's right a year. I know he was 2' because he was the same length as the tank was wide. One night when the dawn of the internet reached my home I decided to do some research and found out it specialized in eating sleeping fish such as c.i.c.h.l.i.d.s. Funny thing was that night he ate a $40 fish. The next day he went to a shop and was put on display. To this day they won't sell him back to me. He's in a tank 1/3 the size of mine, not to mention it's only 18" from top to bottom. So when I bought this TSN I vowed I'd keep it forever. That's why I built the tank. I'm pretty confident that he'll be just fine in it forever. If he's not then I make something bigger, I don't see it happening though.

Waldo · Post by **Waldo** » 28 Aug 2006, 01:05

We just recently adopted a 40" panga cat along with a 30" TSN and 16" pbass. I've got a good location for the cat in a 6k pond however the man that takes these animals in doesn't have the funds to ship these monster fish. Looks nice in the 370 for now thouhg.

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 28 Aug 2006, 02:26

Soooo, any pics of the new commers?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 06 Sep 2006, 09:56

Hey thefishguy,
Right on. Our info is a starting point. You obviously have a handle on the big catfish accomodations. I don't think some are as aware as you of the options available to monster fish keepers. The cattle water tanks are perfect for these kind of fish. "not like a torpedo that can't bend"
cracked me up. Some seem to forget that obvious fact.

AJfromAT · Post by **AJfromAT** » 21 Jun 2007, 15:39

Great posts FishGuy!

How big is your TSN now?

Awesome tank BTW do you have a build log?

AJ

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 22 Jun 2007, 00:17

Well, I've got two now, mine is about 24"-26" the new guy (a rescue) is about 28"-30". I've also rescued a sa. red tail cat. He's about 23" and seven yrs old. He was kept in a 125

He's obviously stunted as I've had him for a few months now and hasn't grown an inch but still eats like a pig

Most of his fins were worn down to nubs but he's doing great! His fins are 90% re-grown and his body has filled out. They were feeding him 10-15 shrimp a week. Here he gets about five 6" bluegill a week

And yes, I do have a build log:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/view ... p?t=103294

For some reason c.i.c.h.l.i.d. is a bad word here on planet catfish

The topic is titled
1122.08 GALLON TANK PROJECT!!! and can be found in the "DIY" section on the c!chlid-forum. I'm also known as TheFishGuy on that forum.

AJfromAT · Post by **AJfromAT** » 22 Jun 2007, 03:20

Wow! sounds like nice set of fish. Are there updated shots on the other site?

I'll swing by there to see the build.

Thanks!

AJ

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 22 Jun 2007, 11:19

Yes there's tons of pictures. Here's one for ya:

AJfromAT · Post by **AJfromAT** » 22 Jun 2007, 11:30

Nice pic! Don't they grab your fingers?

I started to read your thread, it's going to take awhile!

Thanks,

AJ

TheFishGuy · Post by **TheFishGuy** » 23 Jun 2007, 00:06

Nope, I've never got nipped....