Any tips on breeding L134 Leapard Frog Plecs

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 20 Jun 2006, 01:42

I have four L134's in a tank of mixed trops. One is clearly male as it has grown bristles on its body which looks like fur and it spends most of its time in a cave I have. The other three while I cannot be sure appear different so I am hoping they may be females.
I was wondering if anyone can suggest how I go about trying to breed these fish- are there any triggers which encourage them to do so ?

Thanks

PP

Post by **Silurus** » 20 Jun 2006, 01:45

Have you read the breeding article (link to article at bottom of page)?

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 20 Jun 2006, 20:58

Silurus
Thanks I had read that article but have also read it again.
I wondered if any other members had experiences of breeding the L134.
I dont have the technology to be able to test my water as was done in the article. I use RO water which I add some RO right to to make it fish safe- I guess the less I add the softer the water will be.

PP

laurab5 · Post by **laurab5** » 21 Jun 2006, 14:24

I had 4 spawns from my 2m/2f. What i did is let the ph be at around 7.6-8 for a month that was very hard. For around 6 weeks i brought the PH down to around 6.8-7.2 and it had a hardness of about 80-120 ppm. I had them in a 20g long i believe. Sand bottom with tons of driftwood and 2 caves at each end of the tank. I am not quite sure what my temp was as this was almost a year and a half ago. I had 2 spawns the 2 times i did this. I lost them when i had a horrible ice storm here. I loved these a ton, especially the fry. I plan to get back in these when i get back into plecos. Mine were not that big, around 3.5 inches, my biggest male was 4 inches. Both males spawned. I did not have to much current. The current i did have was aimed behind the driftwood, which was basically the back of the tank.

Post by **Barbie** » 21 Jun 2006, 17:11

A TDS meter is $25 or so on ebay. They definitely help you track what you're doing with the fish. I only use RO water when I'm trying to stimulate fish to spawn, not consistently, as it makes it more difficult to cause the fluctuations to simulate the rainy season.

Barbie

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 16 Jul 2006, 12:47

Thanks everyone for your replies.
Barbie talking to people who have purchased meters- tds or ph from Ebay they have tended to indicate they were not very good- I watched a friend use a PH meter he got and the results were way out.
I have actually managed to pick up a form of TDS meter from a UK store called Maplins for all you Brits out there. It was sold as a "Travel water test meter" but was basically a TDS meter- they were in a sale and cost just Â£4.98 which is a steal.
Anyway I see where you are coming from Barbie as regards only using RO to produce the affect of a rainy season.
Would a change of food also help- say feed blood worm and flake etc before the water change and then more meaty food such as Krill and prawns and frozen Discus foods after to simulate the increase in foods in the rainy season.
Thanks

PP

ClayT101 · Post by **ClayT101** » 16 Jul 2006, 23:10

The link is not working anymore.

I may attempt to breed them as well. I just purchased 6 of them last Monday. Right now, they are in my 125 gallon discus tank.

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 17 Jul 2006, 00:49

Planet Catfish Forum has gone through an upgrade since the link was originally posted.

Please find new page here...

http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... cle_id=241

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 22 Jul 2006, 11:34

I tried starting a rainy season yesterday by changing 35% of my tanks water using part RO and changing the feed to more meaty foods while also increasing the aeration / flow. I plan to do further smaller water changes everyday for a while.
One thing I am struggling on is sexing the fish.
I have 4 fish in total and one has lived in and around a cave for the last 3 months. He also grows bristles on his body so I clearly feel this fish is a male. The other three have never shown interest in the cave taking it over or what have you and also never grew bristles on their bodies so I presumed they were female however I have added another cave and now one of these other fish has moved into it.
I am not sure how true the males live in the caves story is but if this is the case maybe my breeding project is already doomed.
Would other males not grow bristles if they were not the dominant male?

PP

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » 22 Jul 2006, 13:12

I have five. Two males and three females. Actually, they all stay in the cave. Both of the males have the "bristles" on their caudal peduncle (back by their caudal fin).

Are your females looking gravid?

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 22 Jul 2006, 19:33

Thanks for the reply
As regards looking gravid one of them does look plump from time to time although nothing like my albino bristlenose when she has eggs.
Would the female start to develop eggs after I started my rainy season or before- if before what would trigger her to do so.
I am only presuming I have 3 females and a male because only one has spines I cannot say " my females are gravid" because I dont know for sure they are female.
I would post pics of them but it isnt an easy tank to catch them in and also dont want to interupt them at this present time.
Thanks
PP

pureaquatics · Post by **pureaquatics** » 22 Jul 2006, 21:59

When the girls become gravid there is no mistaking that they are full of eggs. They can't lay without teetering on their bellies.

We are just running our group through the rainy season for the first time, but they became gravid long before we started the dry season or had any males for that matter. So I'm left to the conclusion that they become gravid naturally with being old enough and having a decent diet.

Gravid female. Pic by my wife pureplecs.

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 22 Jul 2006, 22:37

Oh right- I can hear the wheels coming off this particular breeding project all ready. I dont appear to have any females with stomachs like that- maybe a bit plump on the sides but not like that image.

PP

pureaquatics · Post by **pureaquatics** » 22 Jul 2006, 22:43

I wouldn't give up just yet. Yours may not be old enough. We've had ours for a little over as yr and it's only been the past few months that they have started "showing" like that. You may just need to sit on them for a wile.

ClayT101 · Post by **ClayT101** » 23 Jul 2006, 00:22

Oddly enough, when I rescued my fish 2 weeks after hurricane Katrina, that's exactly how my L-134 looked. It was then I was sure that she was a female. Unfortunately, she died about 2 months later after a DIY CO2 accident.

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 23 Jul 2006, 21:09

I have only had the L134's 6-7 months however the male bristled up on its back a good 3-4 months ago so I presumed the females would be running on the same schedule but I guess not.
I will see how they go on.

PP

Line · Post by **Line** » 24 Jul 2006, 14:10

Hello

I have bred them 3 years by now, and I would say we know eachother very well now

These are my observations from 5 males and 2 females.

1) Both females and males use caves
2) Males can grow and loose the bristles again. Depending
on actual season. A male can even (almost..) look like a
female.
3) I havn't noticed that males not being dominant wouldn't
grow bristles. All my males have beautifull bristles.
4) My wildcaughts started breeding at a size of 8 cm
5) In my tanks they always spawned with PH around 7,5. Others have other experiences.
6) Water hardness usually around GH 4-6

Often the little change of waterparametres gives result.
It depends on the actual situation.

But they react slowly. They don't understand when rainy/warm season changes every second week

Fit for a spawning season - every female spawns every 4th week or so. And this go on for half a year. End of period the spawns get smaller. Then it is time to raise the temperature a little 29-30Â°C, slow the current a little, drop oxygene supply a little (it always has to be sufficient!!!), let the plants grow a little wild, feed more green (peas) and algaewafers.

Starting a spawny season - just the other way round

Almost drop plants in the tank - give the current free space, more and bigger waterchanges etc etc.
When they start, just keep normal maintenance, and they will go on.

In top seasons they give spawns with 35-45 frys. Maximum I have heard was 53.

It's true they love meaty stuff. But one should be carefully not to overfeed with this. They get to fat

Just my five cent

Kind regards
Line

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 25 Jul 2006, 00:41

Line
Thanks for the reply which was very informative.
I think maybe my females- if they are females are maybe still a little small if yours started to spawn at 8cm as mine I would guess are 6-7 cm as a guess.
My normal water change regime is 1-2 times per week using tapwater which has been dechlorinated.
When it comes to producing the rainy season do you think that I could still change 1-2 times per week but include some RO water to lower the waters TDS or should I carry out more water changes per week?
Thanks for your advice.

PP

Line · Post by **Line** » 25 Jul 2006, 09:44

Hi

The animals should really feel a difference.
Daily waterchanges. Bigger than usual.
..

During my warm season here - I change daily. I simply just split the weekly change into daily changes. One has to vaccuum anyhow

Rainy season I make 30% changes daily a couple of days. This is a huge change compared to the usual 4 % a day.
Perhaps move the furniture a little around. Remove plants (this increase current, and increase the free surface for better oxygene supply). Extra oxygene supply on powerheads etc... Temperature down on 27Â°C..

.. and then drink a lot of tea

Best regards
Line

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 05 Aug 2006, 14:14

Things have changed a little bit so thought I would post for a little more advice.
When I tried to run a rainy season I did no water changes for 10 days, I then did a 35% change using part RO part tapwater followed for the next 6 days by 10% changes. At the time the UK was having a mini heatwave so the temps were around 30c in the tank. Nothing seemed to happen and it was also suggested the females would need to be plump like the pic supplied by pureaquatics. Anyway I stopped the water changes last week and infact have not yet got around to doing one. The temp of the tank dropped to 26C as the temps dropped in the room at which point I switched the heater back on which would be around 3-4 days ago. I noticed today one of the "females" had grown wider and now had quite a fat tummy area which kept her body from the glass so now I am wondering if she is becoming gravid. The question now is- NOW WHAT? do I just do normal water changes using tapwater? do I do half RO and half tap or do I do such changes but large again like before?
I just dont know which way to go on this.
Thanks

PP

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 07 Aug 2006, 12:27

If you want to simulate the transition from Summer (dry) to Winder (wet) seasons, you want to simulate added rainwater to the "river" (tank) - rainwater = RO water.

You may also want to increase the feeding with meaty foods (bloodworms, tetra bits, algae wafers, etc), whilst still keeping the vegetable food available. Frequent and large (25% per day isn't a bad thing) water changes, cooler than the normal tank water would be the best option. A little bit of tap-water may not hurt, but you don't want to use huge amounts of tap-water.

If you have a TDS meter, try to get the TDS to around 100 ppm in the tank...

--
Mats

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 09 Aug 2006, 01:04

Mats
Thanks for the reply.
I had carried out a weeks worth of water changes - as much as 35% in some cases earlier in this thread. It was only after I stopped that the female appeared to become plump with I would hope eggs.
Having access to RO water I can drop the tds but clearly I cannot add raw RO I presume I would remineral to the softwater fish state. I added tapwater as I found if I blended 3 litres into 7 litres of RO I got a TDS of around 120.
I find it impossible to reduce the tanks TDS to anywhere near 100 as the TDS is constantly going up with the biological waste etc. I am also aware that the lower the TDS the less stable the water is which is something I have to be careful with as the tank contains other fish including a L046 Zebra.
Am I to conclude then that I need to carry out further large water changes to simulate more of a rainy season.
Thanks

PP

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Aug 2006, 10:28

I'm by no means an expert on the subject, so I'm mainly going by what I've read elsewhere.

I would say if you aim to have 100 ppm TDS when you just changed water, it will obviously rise above that due to accumulation of waste, and if you have calcerous substrate that will also add to the TDS.

100 ppm TDS "at fresh" should not be unstable, unless you have really high nitrate levels - which you shouldn't have f you're changing the water frequently. Anything less than that could become unstable.

Obviously, the PROPER measure for the stability of the water isn't TDS, but rather KH - Carbonate Hardness. Because that is what will balance your pH. Let me explain: TDS measures the conductivity of the water, and then uses a formula to translate that into a PPM value. I take it your RO water is near zero TDS? If, as an experiment, you take a little bit of salt, and add it to the RO water (say in a drinking glass), you'll raise the TDS measured - but there's still absolutely no buffering capacity. If you have sodium bicarbonate (available in most supermarkets along with baking products - at least I think so, it's a while since I needed any...), you coul make the same experiment with that, and you'll probably find that you need a little bit more of that to make the same TDS. But bicarbonate is EXCELLENT as a buffer.

I'm trying to explain this so that you understand the difference between the stuff that makes water "stable" pH-wise, and stuff that just raises TDS anyways - which doesn't actually have any effect on the stability of the pH.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 09 Aug 2006, 10:47

Hello.

With regard to water chemistry, may I refer you to this excellent article

.

You can add raw RO to the tank, providing that the KH/conductivity you end up with is sufficient to keep the pH above about 6.0.

It fact if you don't do this, you may not acheive enough of a variation in conductivity.

If you don't think your fish are gravid, don't bother with a rainy season. It may confuse them, and they may not perform when the real rainy season comes.

Use tapwater, feed heavily and keep temp above 30 until you are 100% sure they are gravid, and then do the rainy season.

lealea · Post by **lealea** » 12 Aug 2006, 07:35

I loved reading all the advice above as I love my L134's. My Pair of L134's bot love thier caves both in different parts of the tank. My female likes to be on display a little more then my male who is busy digging and preparing the perfect home. They have been in their new set up for about two weeks now and I am trying to lower the softness alittle more to activate that love conection. I will keep you posted if anything is happening. I know she is interested as she visits him every night but avoids him by day.

powerfulpumpkins · Post by **powerfulpumpkins** » 12 Aug 2006, 11:26

Thanks for everyones continued replies.
I do hope others attempting to breed the L134 find this information useful.
I must admit I have now heard so much info from both planetcatfish and other sites that it makes no sense.
I have been told to feed lots of meaty food before the rainy season, I have been told to do so only when the rainy season starts.
I have been told to only use ro water when I want to try and spawn the fish, and also told not to use tapwater with the fish at any time.
Then there is the issue of gravid females.
I presumed a female became gravid when you started the rainy season but mine seemed to start to become gravid AFTER I carried out the rainy season and had gone back to a few tapwater changes.
Its left my head spinning somewhat.
Am I to conclude the following.

Tank temp before the rainy season should be around 30C

The fish should be fed plenty of meaty food BEFORE the rainy season starts.

Females become gravid BEFORE the rainy season

Water changes before the rainy season should be tapwater and in the rainy season RO water or atleast part RO water.

This leaves me with just these questions.
Do you continue to feed lots of meaty food into the rainy season?
How long should a rainy season last?
How long do you try before you pull your hair out and give up

Thanks
PP

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 12 Aug 2006, 16:25

I must admit I have now heard so much info from both planetcatfish and other sites that it makes no sense.

Everyone has their own way of doing things, and people will reach success by different methods. Trial and error will teach you a great deal.

I think you may be expecting too much too soon. Patience is the order of the day here.

I have been told to feed lots of meaty food before the rainy season, I have been told to do so only when the rainy season starts.

The meaty food is to get the fish fat and healthy and full of eggs. When you simulate the dry season, you want a low current, loads of food and high temp (30C+). When you change the water, always make sure it's the same conductivity and temp as the tank.

It will probably take many months for the female to become gravid. When you think she's ready, up the current and drop the tank temp with frequent changes with cold RO water down to 26/27C.

Do you continue to feed lots of meaty food into the rainy season?

These fish eat meaty food anyway, so I don't think this is the most critical factor, so I would just feed as normal.

How long should a rainy season last?

Don't know, I'm not an expert but this is how I'm preparing to spawn my L262.

psionic001 · Post by **psionic001** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:59

Hi PP,

I've been watching this thread. Did you get the L134's to spawn.

Yes or no, can you fill us in on any of the different methods you have tried.

thanks

Psi

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 01 May 2011, 21:35

powerfulpumpkins wrote:How long do you try before you pull your hair out and give up

Never give in, I'm in my 6th year of trying with this species!

Jools

psionic001 · Post by **psionic001** » 02 May 2011, 00:49

Come on Jools!!! 6 years is way too long to wait!!!

Lets work on this and get you some babies. What's your set-up?

Cheers

Matt

Jools wrote:
powerfulpumpkins wrote:How long do you try before you pull your hair out and give up
Never give in, I'm in my 6th year of trying with this species!

Jools

Any tips on breeding L134 Leapard Frog Plecs

Any tips on breeding L134 Leapard Frog Plecs

My L134's

Re:

Re: Re: