Need tips on plants n such.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 10 Aug 2006, 03:20

I currently have two aquariums going...
and I know they are small compared to a lot of tanks that people on this site has.><

One tank is a 10 gallon and it is for raising any baby guppies I manage to save from the tank... later it is going to be used as a tank for breeding the guppies when I don't have tiny ones in the tank. At current point it has 8 mid-size guppies in it, one female beta... and a whiptail catfish. The thing that bugs me though is whenever I look up whiptail catfish I find one that is a lot bigger than mine and it looks completely different... so yeah any help on figuring out just what exactly my whiptail is would be nice.
Also, I want to put in some plants because I know that the fry {I think that's the word...} like to have hiding places... but right now it does not have a heater and the lights aren't that great... so I need to get something that is really tolerant...

The twenty gallon tank has I think 2 males but there should be three... and several female guppies, one female beta.. and one male bristlenose... I do have pictures but I need to upload them later because I am not home right now and those pictures are on the computer at home.
For this tank I want to get some slate to give my pleco a hiding spot... but I'm not too sure about it... and I want to get it some plants.
Also... I was wondering if I should get a female bristlenose because I read someplace that they are only supposed to be put in a tank in pairs...
And also, I have a small amount of plants in this tank... but they are severaly... shortened and thinned right now because I haven't been home to feed my pleco enough... sadly. He is getting a bunch of zucchinni soon though so I hope that the plant will be able to recover.

For both tanks I want to get driftwood... but I am pondering if there is something better that I can use for my plecos.
And I was wondering if slate is better than pvc {not sure if that's the right three letters} pipes... or if something else is better
Any tips on what I can do for my tanks to make it more natural for the fish would be awesome... and any tips on how to make my plants grow faster would be cool too.

Thanks for the time.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 10 Aug 2006, 09:53

Hi Mickey,

Any form of vallice, Vallisneria spp. will be a good choice, they are relatively easy to keep, and doesn't have high requirements of any sort - it looks like a grass with fairly wide leaves, and come in different sizes from small twisted variety that grows to about 20-30 cm, to Giant vallice that is about 1cm wide leaves and grows to about 1.5 meter in length [I would recommend that you stay away from the giant variety - it's usually easy to tell apart, as it's really huge even in the shops]

Hygrophila is another plant that grows rapidly and is easy to care for.

More info on plants can be found here: http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

Also, add a plant-nutrition supplement (as per manufacturers directions), if you want your plants to grow well..

As to other decorations: PVC (Polyvinylchloride) is a common material used for plastic water-pipes and other similar items. It's fine for using in aquariums, and it's relatively low-cost.

Bogwood, sold by many fish-shops, is another GREAT material for decorating the tank and making a hidey-space for the fish.

There's no requirement for bristlenoses to kept in pairs, you can keep them singly, in pairs or in groups, they don't really mind much. Of course, if you have a male and a female, you'll most likely get babies... Which may be a good thing if you can spend a lot of time looking after them, but babies (like for humans) take a lot of effort compared to adults....

Slate, as long as it's not "glittery" is fine for fish-tanks. Most garden centres sell slate, and you only need some small and thin pieces so it shouldn't be a huge cost to add some, if you fancy that.

--
Mats

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 10 Aug 2006, 11:06

Easy plants, a list:

-Ceratophyllum demersem (hornworth? I'm not good at common names), can be used floating or in the sand, it doesn't have roots.

-Microsorum pteropus (java Fern) grows on bogwood, not in sand. dead easy to keep.

-Anubias spp. another bogwood-grower, but this one does also fine on rocks and backpanels. very hardy slowgrower.

-Cryptocoryne ponterifolia, C nevelli, C wendtii de witt, C affinis. all of these do fine in sand or fine gravel; Crypto's can do fine with less light that say, Vallisneria or Echinodorus. also: few fish eat Crypto's, they taste pretty bad.

-Hygrophila polysperma. this must be the eassiest to keep plant, next to Duckweed (Lemna minor). easy to grow, easy to break into little pieces and plant all over the tank.
perfect plant for a fry-tank.

-Duckweed! THE nitrate-vacuumcleaner. just let it grow and grow and scoop out most of it every few weeks. every single net full of duckwed is in essential 'fishpoop & nitrates' wich you haul out of the tank.....

-Pistia stratoides, Limnobium spp and Salvinia spp; all floaters that develop into 'dwarf forms' in a tank (although Limnobium can overgrow a tank, and sometimes Pistia too). dense roots make a good hideout for any baby fish. these too soak up nitrates big time.

These plants must be about the toughest customers as aquatic plants go. they grow on almost any bulb (except office bulbs) and if these do NOT grow then something is seriously wrong with the light, the substrate or the water or all 3.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 00:47

MatsP: Thanks I will check to see if any fishstore in our province has that kind of plant. {Surpisingly not that hard seeing as we only have one city with stores that stock plants...>>}
Also, I have been giving some stuff to the plants just like the directions say and it's not doing a single thing.>> I stopped for awhile and the plants were happy.. then I started n poof.>> I stopped again cause I didn't have the time to get to my tanks.. and they are still bad. {Sad I know... I hate cabins and lakes and idiotic parents.><}
Bogwood... I read somewhere that you are supposed to soak it or something because of some color thingy in it or so... is this true? Or would I be safe just washing it off then putting it in?
Would Bristlenose mate in a 20 gallon tank? I will have the time for them later but I can't imagine they would willingly bring babies into something that small...
And with the slate... I just want to make a small home for him, thanks for the info on the pvc pipes too.

Sidguppy: Much thanks will look into those.

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 01:59

I tried to get more pictures because these two are kinda old.
But yeah my camera's batteries are dead and it isn't working out with the whole it doesn't want to give me nice enough pictures and such.
><
The guppy with the split tail is currently in the 10 gallon with two females cause I am hoping to get something from him.
And yeah the babies have moved to the 20 gal.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Aug 2006, 10:25

A pair of bristlenoses will certainly mate in a 20g tank - they don't need MUCH space. Whether it's a suitable place to bring up baby bristlenoses is a different queston. It's quite likel that you wouldn't be able to grow them out very large, and thus struggle to keep the tank clean and get saleable size fish... If you change 40% of the water every 2-3 days, it should be fine, but that's a lot of hard work...

--
Mats

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 15:37

I'm up for the work...
And would it be better if I were to buy a tank that is just empty with gravel and a hideout or two?
Cause my parents aren't thrilled with the idea of getting another tank. {really expensive}
Also, from what I have read a bigger tank would need to go downstairs in the basement so as not to worry bout harming the floors and such... and the basement tends to be colder than the upstairs...

But yeah seeing as I think I have some cash... I'm sorta interested in how I could set up a tank for the pleco's...
and how often to pleco's mate?
{I have a whiptail in the ten gallon... if I didn't get a bigger tank for them, would some of the babies be able to go in with him/her?}

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Aug 2006, 15:55

You need to separate the male and female if you're breeding them, because they will breed every 4-5 weeks or so, and you'll get 30-50 fry each time, which will quite soon flood whatever tanks you get.

I would recommend however that you don't try to breedin a 20 gallon tank, but wait until you have something a bit bigger to use as a breeding tank. Unless the tank is much bigger, you'll still need to separate the male and female to prevent you from overflowing with bristlenose babies.

Whiptails tend to be a bit hard to feed, I wouldn't want it to have several bristlenoses competing with it for food - the bristlenoses will be bolder and eventually also stronger...

--
Mats

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:02

Alright... and if I managed to get a big tank I could keep the female in the twenty cause I believe it's the male that watches over them

and yeah I gave both tanks some zuchinni and neither touched theirs so I am wondering what's wrong...

and my whiptail doesn't like algea pellets... any tips for it?

Edit: I want to try to mate them because it seems like a challenge and it would be nice to do something like that with something else beside guppies n such...
But I don't know where I could sell them...
I live in a province where hobbyists are generally just the 'oh it's pretty' type or they are so hardcore they would laugh at getting something as small as a bristlenose in their tank .-.

once the fish matured... what could I do with them?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:11

Mickey wrote:Alright... and if I managed to get a big tank I could keep the female in the twenty cause I believe it's the male that watches over them

and yeah I gave both tanks some zuchinni and neither touched theirs so I am wondering what's wrong...

and my whiptail doesn't like algea pellets... any tips for it?

Yes, the male is the one watching over the eggs and early fry. Once the fry are free-swimming you have a few days before the female will be allowed to spawn with the male, so you could move either, but I generally move the female as soon as I know the male is "laying on eggs".

You could try quickly boiling the zucchini - bring a pot to boil, drop the zucchini slice(s) in, and almost immediately take it off the boil, pour off the hot water and rinse it well with cool water. It should still be crispy, but softer.

Also, most fish will not know what new foods are until they have had some time to "investigate it", so it may take a few days for them to figure out that the new green thing that just appeared in the tank is actually food...

--
Mats

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:18

Okies...

Yeah my guppies all find the zuchinni to be lovely... and my bristlenose sits near it... but my whiptail won't go near it... he hides in his corner by the filter... and he DOES NOT like being intruded upon by anything... oh that was scary cleaning...

My whiptail hasn't had zuchinni yet but awhile ago I gave some to my bristlenose... guess he doesn't realize this one is just bigger.

Also, what's the minimum a tank would need to handle the fry and fish? hate to put it that way but I have to do minimums then slowly add to...
and how big would you suggest I go for that?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:26

To answer your previous question first: You should be able to sell baby bristlenoses to a local shop. May well be that people like pretty fish, but they ALSO like to see their fish, and most beginners get algae in their tanks - usually so much that they can't see the fish. There's four ways to treat this:
- Kill the algae with chemicals. Easy, effective, but not very natural, and gets a bit expensive in the long term.
- Reduce feeding, lighting and increase water changes.
- Add a fish that eats algae.
- Use manual mehanical cleaning of the tank-glass and any other affected area.

Of those four, two involve buying something from the local shop. The shop will probably prefer selling a bunch of chemicals every 6 weeks or so, but a good shop will know that the customer will sooner or later realize that this is not a permanent solution, so they will possibly sell them a "not so cute but very effective" bristlenose pleco...

As they easy, quite robust and not-too-large-growing algae eaters, they are ideal for the task.

Ok, so the shop may buy large-growing common pleco's that eventually leads to the demise of the entire tank instead, but only if they don't know any better...

--
Mats

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:32

Now, lets discuss tank size.

I'd say a 30-40g tank is fine to grow out a single batch of bristlenose babies. A 55g is probably sufficient to grow two subsequent batches (or more) at the same time, particulary if you start picking off the bigger ones once they get to about 1.5" (35-40 mm) TL. That's the size I'd say you can sell them... Bigger ones are of course both easier to sell and take longer to grow out.

--
Mats

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:36

The only shop that I trust with my fish would be a shop that won't accept fish from hobbyists....
She said she could put up a notice but nothing more...

And about the tank size... if I were to get a bigger one.. would it be safe to have some bigger fish in there too? Or would they bother baby pleco's?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:50

Mickey wrote:The only shop that I trust with my fish would be a shop that won't accept fish from hobbyists....
She said she could put up a notice but nothing more...

And about the tank size... if I were to get a bigger one.. would it be safe to have some bigger fish in there too? Or would they bother baby pl*co's?

Did you ask to sell to the shop on the account of a Bristlenose, or on guppies? I think most shops will not take on guppies that are home-bred. Bristlenoses are a little bit more "saleable"...

You can keep fish that are less than a quarter of the long side and less than half the shortest side of the tank - whichever of those is the shortest. That's obviously the MAX size you can maintain.

As to whether they "bother" the baby bristlenoses depends on the type of fish. Did you have anything in particular in mind?

There are some fish that will definitely _NOT_ work, such as , most c-ichlids, etc.

But with some care in choosing, you can certainly keep some bigger fish.

Obviously, the whole idea of having a big growout tank is so that you can cope with a large number of small fish. Putting bigger fish in there will increase the bioload, and thus not allow quite so many small fish...

--
Mats

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 16:56

I asked about guppies yes but she said she can't take stock from people... she is picky and she uses one breeder and such...

I dunno I would use petland but they just sell to anybody and I would want to make sure that the people know what they are going to have.....
and what they like to eat.. and such. I unno I dun wanna ditch em.

And yeah I know that would happen but I was thinking that if I get a 55 or so... I would only have one batch at a time... thus making it have plenty of extra room
and yeah I don't like the idea of chiclids because they seem kinda.. mean
I will check my book that I borrowed from the library... I remember seeing something that I liked

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 11 Aug 2006, 17:05

I looked it up and it's a tiny fish caled dwarf topminnow
or... heterandria formosa
yeah... tiny tiny

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 13 Aug 2006, 15:59

Got pics of my twenty and ten with the driftwood n "slate".
The only place in this province that I could imagining having what I wanted didn't have any.
But yeah I got rocks and driftwood and my pleco was plenty happy so I guess that will work...
Now I just need plants.
And to get the ten gallon the lights and heater and better filter. x.x

20 gallon...

10 gallon...

This was an attempt to take a picture of my whiptail
I am borrowing my aunts camera soon though so I should get better pictures. ^^;;

And the pink was my sisters doing... she helped pick out gravel and I gave her reign of the ten tank. x.x

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 13 Aug 2006, 17:07

And I have looked up those plants just now cause I got ahold of this plant book I borrowed from the library...
Vallisneria Spiralis... Straight Vallisneria
I was looking at it because it looks like it would be nice ot plant near the back of my twenty
my only worry is that by doing that I will stop all flow of the water and the heater will create a hot spot and kill off the plants and my fish won't get any heat. x.x

Hygrophila Polysperma is I think the plant that I am gonna go for with my ten gallon

now all I need to do is look up the floating plants. x.x

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Aug 2006, 11:35

Mickey wrote:And I have looked up those plants just now cause I got ahold of this plant book I borrowed from the library...
Vallisneria Spiralis... Straight Vallisneria
I was looking at it because it looks like it would be nice ot plant near the back of my twenty
my only worry is that by doing that I will stop all flow of the water and the heater will create a hot spot and kill off the plants and my fish won't get any heat. x.x

Hygrophila Polysperma is I think the plant that I am gonna go for with my ten gallon

now all I need to do is look up the floating plants. x.x

I'm pretty sure you'll have a hard task blocking enough water-flow from the heater to "cut it off". If it starts to grow too wild, just pick some out and give it to a friend or something... I'm sure you'll be fine planting it around the back of the tank.

Hygrophila will grow quite wild, so you'll probably need to be trimmed quite frequently.

--
Mats

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 14 Aug 2006, 15:40

I'm pretty sure you'll have a hard task blocking enough water-flow from the heater to "cut it off". If it starts to grow too wild, just pick some out and give it to a friend or something... I'm sure you'll be fine planting it around the back of the tank.

Thankies.^^ I will see if I can order some of the plants in then.>.o

Hygrophila will grow quite wild, so you'll probably need to be trimmed quite frequently.

That's no problem... I got a multi tool thing so trimming is fun.>.o

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 18 Aug 2006, 20:20

Got a cool piccy of my pleco having fun on the driftwood.
Couldn't get a good shot but it's the best I can get for now.

pictus_man_77 · Post by **pictus_man_77** » 18 Aug 2006, 21:16

Its great seeing pictures of smaller tanks.
Stops me being jealous of bigger ones.
Great job on the layout of those tanks!

Mickey · Post by **Mickey** » 20 Aug 2006, 02:10

Thanks.
Butyeah I only have to get the plants now and they should be pretty...
And then I need to upgrade 10 gal a bit. But yeah.>>
My whiptail is moving around more... I was like 'wow... it moved onto the wood...'
And then it moved again in less than ten minutes! ><But>>

ZachPaul · Post by **ZachPaul** » 09 Sep 2006, 21:51

i am also tryin to breed bushy noses! good luck dude, im gonna use alot of java fern, ive herd even a child couldnt kill the java.