No one is legally exporting these fish. Not with a license, not with a permit, I will not eat green zebra plecos and dolphins...
So if you see these fish on a forum.... site.... or store being sold as Wild caught zebra pleco's feel free to bring a law enforcment officer from FWS!
Well that seems to have shut everyone up!!
It does not actually tell you what punishment was given out though ....
MMM I think Brazillian jail food must be really tasty...
Joolz i am with you on this one ..
The population is so reduced that even with a ban ..You are talking decades for a recovery if at all ..
It seem that some people are so blinded by the desire to own a forbiden thing ...
You always want what you cant have ehhh ..
I sugest that if you want zebras buy the F1 off a breeder
These will do all a wild fish would do but better...
Anyone fancy posting a translation? This article details someone caught smuggling zebra pl*cos.
Jools
IBAMA officials managed to pin down a group of commercial sellers trying to smuggle 290 L46's from Belem to Sau Paulo before trying to take them out of the country. They were fined 3000 Brazilian reals and the fish were confiscated by IBAMA, but no mention of further punishment.
Daniel, did you have anything to do with this? Where will the fish go now, back into the wild (bad mistake) or at the IBAMA research center?
You peixes foram set sail for to head office do Center of Gestão
~This is what AOL translate gave me.
~3000reak = $1320.00 6/11/06
You speak of it not being a hefty fine however I'm sure that the messege was clear. Yeah IBAMA care and it would probably be more if they try it again.
You can kill a man and get 12 and serve 7 here in the US.
I still find the fine quite ridiculous...come on ...onn the black market these are worth far more than 3000R$!!!
No jail and nothing else than this...
3000R$ is what they are making with ~ one customer in one shipment...
This sort of things won't prevent them to start again...make it 10 to 100 times harder and it will start to make people think about sending these...couple this with an interdiction to send any fish for 6 months with harder control on them in the future...and we will be able to see the benefit...export companies will think more than just once before trying to send any of these!!
I just read my post and let me point out I am totally in agree with you. kinda sounded like I wasn't. I'm ok with you slaving my competition that is hurting my business illegally!
yannfulliquet said......
"I still find the fine quite ridiculous...come on ...onn the black market these are worth far more than 3000R$!!
To whom are they worth that much to? the smuggler might be lucky to get 10% of that price, there are a lot of sticky hands a long the way before they get to the consumer
Boots!!
Trust me the zebra offered illegaly by some export companies are not being sold for 10-25$ a piece...they are fully aware of how much it can be sold in shop!!
Also I highly doubt the demand comes from Big companies... small importers, small shops are the one who are trying to obtain these... some thing should be maid against them as well!!
I dont doubt people are smuggling but..
We went in September to Peru ..
The Exporter asked us to take some f1 with us ..
HGE took him 10 pcs ...for him to play about with..
If they are readily available on the Black market
I am sure that he could have got them ??
I dont think the smuggling is as big as is made out ..
After all there are none coming into the importers???
Please correct me if you have actualy got some ..
I am not an importer...
But I know a few people that had ask some export companies for some and they send him some...
Sure the black market isn't in the proportion the export used to be...but still shouldn't been taken too low!!
Hey everyone, been a long time since i posted. While i have sold of all my pleco colonies, i can tell you this. I am one that thinks the zebra is overrated. In my opinion, L134 are better looking than zebras, and in my opinion, are the best looking pleco under 5 inches. I know my words won't mean much, but instead of getting a zebra for looks, get an L134. This is for one who just wants one zebra for a community. I am glad daniel has told us this info. I to think a period of 3-5 years should be given for them to recooperate. In the mean time, go out and get you a nice colony of L134. You won't be disappointed.
sojapat wrote:Well that seems to have shut everyone up!!
It does not actually tell you what punishment was given out though ....
MMM I think Brazillian jail food must be really tasty...
Joolz i am with you on this one ..
The population is so reduced that even with a ban ..You are talking decades for a recovery if at all ..
It seem that some people are so blinded by the desire to own a forbiden thing ...
You always want what you cant have ehhh ..
I sugest that if you want zebras buy the F1 off a breeder
These will do all a wild fish would do but better...
Anyone fancy posting a translation? This article details someone caught smuggling zebra pl*cos.
Jools
I'll do it NOW.
Raul-7 wrote:IBAMA officials managed to pin down a group of commercial sellers trying to smuggle 290 L46's from Belem to Sau Paulo before trying to take them out of the country. They were fined 3000 Brazilian reals and the fish were confiscated by IBAMA, but no mention of further punishment.
Daniel, did you have anything to do with this? Where will the fish go now, back into the wild (bad mistake) or at the IBAMA research center?
Not directly... But I got an e-mail of this same exporter offering zebras a while ago... And passed it to my colleagues.
According to the IBAMA staff, who were at the airport, the ornamental fishes came from Altamira and would be shipped to São Paulo (SE Brazil) to be exported then.
The zebra pleco is one of the most sought after ornamental fishes in the world, and this species comes from the rapids of the Xingu River. This species is on the national list of the endangered/ threatened with extinction species of Brazil. The traffic/ smuggling is one of the factors contributing to the dissapearing of the zebra pleco in its native area.
The fishes were taken to the CEPNOR (a specialized research center affiliate to IBAMA), to be identified. The seller got fined in R$ 3,000.00, based on the law number 9.605/ 1998 ("Law of Environmental Crimes"), because of the transportation of specimens from the native brazilian fauna without the needed permits.
I recently posted a thread on the zebra plec site about these fish being offered to certain retailers (me included) at silly prices (£20). I was also told huge stockpiles existed and were being used to breed. I was also told hormones were being used to "speed up" the breeding and growth process. Many found this very hard to believe and quite frankly so would I if I hadn't been offered them myself. A few days ago I noticed an ebay seller who has sold qty's of zebs then today I noticed this Url
Are they wild?..I doubt it! But how can this seller and why would this seller do a buy it now at only £37.50 per fish I urge people NOT TO BUY without asking questions!
kev wrote:i dos'nt seem real so ive asked the seller a couple of question's.
Kev
Good luck! On their fist auction (6 zebras) they had an email address which clearly showed a domain name. I looked this up and found their contact detail which included a mobile no: I have yet to get anyone to answer this phone which is strange as they claim to be a business
we will see, i have asked them if the zeb's are wild caught or tank bred, and would i be able to collect them insted of them being posted and could i pay on collection?. I'll post any answer's back on here.
Kev
Put me dinner in the oven, im off to the Xingu!!!.
zebraplec wrote:...Are they wild?..I doubt it! But how can this seller and why would this seller do a buy it now at only £37.50 per fish I urge people NOT TO BUY without asking questions!
I click this link and it says buy it now is £300.00 ...!
Edit: Oh wait, 300/8 = 37.5 LOL
well i got a positive response from Matt the guy offering these zeb's for sale, he said i could go and collect them myself and pay on delivery , oh and they are tank bred. He said i could collect them from his supplier in buchan, ive asked for a post code so i can do a route finder.
Kev
Put me dinner in the oven, im off to the Xingu!!!.
kev wrote:well i got a positive response from Matt the guy offering these zeb's for sale, he said i could go and collect them myself and pay on delivery , oh and they are tank bred. He said i could collect them from his supplier in buchan, ive asked for a post code so i can do a route finder.
Kev
He is guniune, but I'm not sure those L46 are. There has to be a logical reason why they are being sold for that ridiculous price - please check for deformities (crooked fins, snubnose, etc.) when you get them. Or they might be hormone grown as zebraplec mentioned. The only way to find out is to breed them.
kev wrote:They are in scotland, dont think im gona get them, i wolud hate to drive all the way up there and they are crap quality os sumthin like that.
Kev
Thats weird..is advert on ebay said the Item location was "Southampton, Hampshire" which is the other end of the country right? Or is that where he is getting them from?
kev wrote:
He is guniune, but I'm not sure those L46 are. There has to be a logical reason why they are being sold for that ridiculous price - please check for deformities (crooked fins, snubnose, etc.) when you get them. Or they might be hormone grown as zebraplec mentioned. The only way to find out is to breed them.
What city is he located in the UK?
What a ridiculous price ?! That's a reasonable price! Or do you want the zebras to be always sold for 200 dollars/piece?
I think ridicoulous in this case refers to them being about a quarter of the USUAL price. And if someone comes up you offering to sell something that is usually $200 for $50, wouldn't you sort of wonder why? There's USUALLY two reasons for such prices:
1. Something is wrong with the product (it's not what the seller says it is (fake Rolex watches come to mind), or it's something "broken" with the product).
2. Someone is trying to do something "wrong", such as selling stolen goods [although I doubt that's the case here] or actually not sell you anything, just charge you for it [sounds like that's not the case either - at least from what Kev reports].
I personally think it's great if you can get 8 Zebra pleco for £300, or around $600 for the set. But it sounds a bit too good to be true - and as the saying goes, "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is", so it's worth bein wary...
I think we should stop to see any potential problem anywhere...why not asking the guy about the price and the reason for it to be so low...
I like such person who are in the "no profit" (sort of) spirite...the price of Hz has been widely over their actual values...I have seen several fish more endangered in the wild, if not exctinct being sold a symbolic price...only ensuring that the persons taking them would provide a good home and try his best breeding them and passing them to other hobbyist...and for me it is the good way to see the hobby...
I have bred several species of Loricariidae, I have yet to sell an single specimen that was born at home!!
Where will the fish go now, back into the wild (bad mistake) or at the IBAMA research center?
I urge people NOT TO BUY without asking questions!
, oh and they are tank bred. He said i could collect them from his supplier in buchan, ive asked for a post code so i can do a route finder.