plecos bleeding internally

ghost716 · Post by **ghost716** » 02 Jun 2006, 01:30

I have spent many hours here reading through the forums and articles, trying to learn as much as I can. Today I decided to join because I need some expert advice and help to help someone who came to me for help. I emailed the guy I am helping the list of things Barbie posted that you will need, but while I am waiting for him to get back to me I figured I would post the information that I know to see if any of you have any ideas.
Okay, first of all this guy has numerous tanks and indoor ponds all the way up to 300 gallons. He keeps all different kinds of fish in them, but he is having problems with plecos dying. He does know all about feeding them veggies and a variety of foods, although I'm not sure what he has been feeding them lately. The problem started in the tank he grows plants in. He had several plecos in there, and the first sign that something was wrong was they would swim to the top and gasp for air. Within hours they would die, but smell terrible immediately after death. He moved them to different tanks and added air. That took care of the problem for a while, but just recently he has started losing them again. 2 large albinos, 1 chocolate, and 2 regular, all large common plecos. When they die he says they are passing blood out of their rectum, and he did push on the tummy of one of the dead ones, and it passed a lot of blood. My thoughts on this was an internal parasite or bacteria, but it is not affecting any other fish at all. And he is losing them at the rate of 2 a day now.
I know it would be so much easier if I had all the other info you ask for, and I'm hoping he gets back to me soon with all of that. But in the meantime has anyone ever seen anything like this? Where it is killing off plecos but nothing else is affected at all? Tracy

Post by **Janne** » 02 Jun 2006, 12:20

Even that I have not seen them or know the water parameters I would suspect internal bacteria infection together with low oxygen level in their blood. The substrate in the bottom of a tank without regulare cleaning and low circulation release a lot of nitrogen and carbon dioxide and sometimes even sulphur dioxide (blacknes of the gravel), and the first fishes that are affected are these living at the bottom. In these kind of substrate which are good for plants is not the best for Loricariid's, the bacteria pressure is very high in such substrate which make it worse...it's very important in planted tanks that the plants really grow perfect and consume a lot of the organic waste (ammonia and nitrate) or to clean regulary. In waters with low circulation will the water create different layers...(not sure if that are the correct word) a little colder with less oxygen and more nitrogen and carbon dioxide near the bottom when it's at the surface.

I would move the plecos to a clean tank with strong circulation, raise the temp between 28-30 C and also add salt which help them to raise the oxygen level in their blood. If they look swollen on the belly I would also use a medication containing Metradonizol which work best together with salt (fishmedications containing Metradonizol are always mixed with salt).

Janne

ghost716 · Post by **ghost716** » 02 Jun 2006, 20:36

Thank you so much. Even though they aren't my fish, I have been trying so hard to help him and find the right info I feel like I am going through it with him. I was actually on the verge of telling him to separate the ones he has left and treat each of them with a different med to see if anything helped, but I do not believe in that type of shotgun approach. Jungle Tabs parasite clear contains metronidazole, right? I know I had a hard time find metro in my area before when I needed it, til one fish store had a jar of it. Thank you again, I really appreciate it. And so does Earl and his plecos. Tracy

Post by **Janne** » 02 Jun 2006, 22:29

Jungle Tabs parasite clear contains metronidazole, right?

Yes, and that medication is very good for plecos...it contains already salt so when using that medication it's not necessary to add extra salt.

Janne

xinguinsis · Post by **xinguinsis** » 03 Jun 2006, 14:02

Hi Janne,
You talk about high toxin levels at the walls of aquariums and high bacteria count .Do you think snails with their scouring method of feeding will directly (eating bacteria)and inderictly (eating the food the bacteria eat)will significantly reduce this.
Regards Chris

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 03 Jun 2006, 14:33

I agree with Janne that it sounds like an internal bacterial infection ("dropsy").

FWIW, I've only ever got that after feeding fish frozen chironomid larvae (bloodworms), and my pet theory is that it's because the larvae have been improperly handled after harvest, and started to rot before packaging & freezing.
Out of personal curiosity, it'd interest me to hear if your friend has fed frozen bloodworms to his fish during the last week prior to their death?

ghost716 · Post by **ghost716** » 03 Jun 2006, 15:34

He told me he feeds mainly cucumbers and zucchini, and shrimp and stuff like that that he buys at an oriental food store. He thought that because he had bought cucumbers at a supermarket he doesn't normally buy them from that maybe that was the cause; maybe the cucumbers had some kind of pesticide or fertilizer on them. He said the first time he did that he lost several plecos, then the deaths stopped for a couple of weeks. Then he had to buy them at the supermarket again, and the deaths started back up. After seeing Janne's post yesterday I emailed him and he said he had done some major tank cleanings already and added salt and everything seemed better. He said he does change water quite often, but this time he totally cleaned everything. I still told him to get the jungle tabs just in case. Tracy