Best ways of changing water?

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 16 May 2006, 20:07

Does anyone have any ideas or hints about changing large (100 liters upwards) quantities of water from a 600liter display tank?

Simon

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 16 May 2006, 20:24

Do you have access to the Python or any of the hoses that you can attach to the faucet? These are helpful getting the water out of the larger tanks.

Amanda

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 May 2006, 20:25

Everyone else would probably suggest a Python syphoning unit, but I've got a regular gravel cleaner with a long hose (that I trail outside to water the lawn) and a bucket... That does about 30% on a 400 liter tank every week.

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Mats

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 16 May 2006, 21:01

Thanks for the quick replies,
I hadn't seen the python before, now syponing out the water isnt such an issue as I do very much the same as mats....

Filling with fresh water is more the issue, the closest tap is a fair way away, now i dont mind lugging the buckets around but im looking for a quicker easier way.

The problem with the python would be adding the dechlorinator to the tank as i was under the impression that it needed to be added to the water before it reached the tank.

I know of others that fill tanks with a hose straight from the tap and add the dechlorinator during/after this, but I am warey of the effect this would have on the fish.

(As an engineer im currently working on an automatic system for this, but my spare time is limited so im sticking to the manual way for now)

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 16 May 2006, 21:09

Another obvious method is of course to have a reservoir (tank) which is fed from the mains water, and stores water until you need it. Connect this to a hose (or pipe it in "hard" with plastic or copper pipes). You can then fill it up with suitable amount of water, add a heater to get it to the right temp, and add dechlorinator to it.

As long as the tank is above the top of your tank (such as in the loft), it will work just fine to get the water to your tank.

If you know how much water you have/need for each water change, you can set up a ball-cock (like in the toilet cistern or most loft-installed water tanks) to the right amount of water...

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Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 17 May 2006, 12:17

I have stairs near the tank, so I just carry the 40L camping type containers up the stairs, connect a hose, and let gravity do the rest.

It beats trying to pour it in!

Tom · Post by **Tom** » 17 May 2006, 16:29

Off topic- do you have a picture of your S. ornatipinnis?

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » 17 May 2006, 17:36

I add dechlorinater after pouring the water in and have had no problems. Why should it make a difference when you put dechlorinater in anyway, the same amount is going in, and the dechlorinater will get to all the water, not just the new water going into the tank.

Carl.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 17 May 2006, 17:48

I suppose the difference between adding dechlorinator to the bucket before pouring it in the tank and after is that the chlorine is either neutralized BEFORE it goes in the tank, or after...

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Mats

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 17 May 2006, 21:47

Tom - i have one that I have subbmitted for the website so it should appear sometime in the next couple of weeks, and ill be trying to get a few more soon.

monkeon · Post by **monkeon** » 17 May 2006, 23:52

just a thought... i have a thing for cleaning my car which attaches to a hose. it adds shampoo to the water before going through this brush. forget the brush and you might be onto a winner for adding dechlorinator, or you could brush the tank while you're changing water

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 18 May 2006, 10:21

You may want slightly less dechlorinator than the carwash soap - but I guess that could be solved by diluting the dechlorinator prior to adding it to the container where it's stored before it's injected to the brush.

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Mats

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 18 May 2006, 18:44

monkeon that sounds like a pretty good idea, in combination with mats' idea of diliuting the dechlorinator first. I might give it a try sometime

Post by **Barbie** » 19 May 2006, 16:33

If you just add the dechlorinator to the tank before you start running water back in, the chlorine is neutralized as it goes into the tank. I know that with the 1300 gallons of water in my house I'm dang sure not going back to the days of the bucket! Heck I've even rigged up a pump system for my RO rainy system that I need to get assembled! Bucket back and elbow are responsible for many hobbyists having trouble with their tanks later on if you read many of the mailing lists ;).

I can do my weekly or twice weekly water changes in less than 2 hours on the majority of the tanks I keep with the Python. I consider it a gift from god. Word to the wise though, spend the money, don't try DIY. The cheaper hoses collapse easily and just aren't as effective. Yes, of course, I had to learn that lesson myself the hard way ;).

Barbie

synoguy · Post by **synoguy** » 19 May 2006, 19:27

Thankyou Barbie, I was thinking along the lines that the dechlorinator would neutralise the chlorine instantly like you say, I guess before I tried it I wanted confirmation that it wouldnt cause the fish any problems as I have some less common species in my tanks.

Simon

snowball · Post by **snowball** » 21 May 2006, 03:40

In my experience dechlorinators do not work immediately, although they do seem to have a palliative effect on most fish which I suspect helps them to survive the fresh water as the chlorine dissapates.

I have kept African red-eye tetras (Arnoldichthys spilopterus) for several years and have found them to be highly sensitive to fresh tap water, presumably it is the chlorine they can't tolerate. Where other fish show no signs of distress, these will become stunned and apparantly lose all control, start breathing heavily, drop to the bottom of the tank and, literaly, flounder. The tank they are in is 300l and I have 60l + 80l heated & aerated reseviors for water changes.

Here's what I have observed when doing 20% changes:-
Water aged for 24hrs or less, with dechlorinator added when res filled: tetras show signs of distress (all other fish fine)
Water aged for 48hrs+ with dechlorinator: tetras fine.
Water aged for 48hrs with no dechlorinator: tetras distressed.
Water aged for 48hrs with dechlorinator added as tank is filled: tetras distressed.
Water aged for 4 days or more, no dechlorinator: tetras mildly distressed, recover quickly.

I have also done 50% changes with water that had been aged for 48hrs and had dechlorinator added two hours prior to the water change and still had problems with the tetras. Fortunately, once these tetras start to recover they do so very quickly and show no signs of what's happened to them. I have also noticed that putting the fresh water through the trickle filter before it gets into the tank helps.

Now this all depends on the quality of the water that comes out of the tap. Where I live the water board tends to add chloramine to the city reseviors at random intervals and in varying ammounts - some days the water positively stinks of chemicals, others it is barely noticable. Summer is worse due to public concerns over blue-green algae contamination.

I also suspect that different brands of dechlorinator have different levels of effectiveness, although this is hard to quantify. Fwiw, I use Sera aquatan.

Now correct me if I am wrong (someone who has a better understanding of chemistry please!), but I have been under the impression that dechlorinators don't so much remove the chlorine themselves, but rather act to break the bond between chlorine and water (and between chlorine and ammonia in the chase of chloramine). This then allows the chrloine to naturally dissapate (evaporate?) from the water, which is hastened by aeration and/or exposure to UV light. My experience with ageing water in reseviors seems to support this.

DiabloCanine · Post by **DiabloCanine** » 21 May 2006, 13:59

I use RO.

Here is how I make it;

Here is how I move it;

I make/use 150 gallons a week this way. Let me know if you need/want more pics/info....DC