Sick Malapterurus electricus, please advise.

[venwu225]

Hi Everyone:

I am a new member at Planet catfish and I am seeking some
advice.

I currently have a sick electric cat. its been in the
tank for 8 days now. Eats like a machine even now.

The animal is currently 2 inches, a baby. Housed in a 5 gallon tank (already have a 250 gallon for distant future, in the garage.)The tank is 1.5 yrs old and has a resident gold fish thats 2 inches long. The tank has two external power filter, cascade 100, and whisper 20. I know its not great, but I thought it should have been over filtered for a 5 gallon tank. I do smallwater change of 1.5 liter every day, with tap water treated with API tapwater conditioner.

Sunday 10/29/05:
The animal appear to
have over all reddness to its body, fin clamping is clearly
evident. Reddness occurs more prominent at the caudal fin.
Seems to have excessive body slime.
Top two barbels begin to show signs of deteriation(sp),
losing turgidity. Lower four seem normal.
Still eats like a glutton though.

Water parameters: Nitrate 40ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Ammonia 0ppm.
I thought it was a response from bad water quality, So I
did a 100% water change and used drinking water from those 5.5 gallon delivery bottles, source is candian springs. I also administered 200mgs of erythromycin just in case.

Monday 10/31/05:

Top two barbels regains turgidity, animal seems a bit more active, the left lower lateral barbel becomes less turgid. Fin reddness seems to decrease by observation, but the clamping seems to increase. And excess slime coat seem to persist.

I administered another 200 mgs of erythromycin. Animal still eats with superb vigor.

I have been in the hobby for 15 years now, and rarely
EVER have fish die of healthy problems. So I am pretty
worried that this happened as I am really attached to this particular fish for some reason, prevention has been my usual solution. This is my first 2 inch electric cat, so I can say I am rather inexperienced with young fish of this species.

Numerous literature online stress their toughness?

ANY thing else I should be doing?

Thanks for everyone's time. He hides all the time and photographing him is almost impossible, but I will try to post some photos soon.

Photo of the fish when its healthy:



Video of feeding:
http://students.washington.edu/venwu/ecat.MPG
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[Redcatman]

Just wondering what the pH of your tank is? It's a rather small tank and in a softwater area you could experience rapid changes in pH. In the past, I have experienced acidosis in naked catfishes as as result of this.

[MatsP]

Redcatman has a point. Particularly, the bottled water may be quite soft [some of the US/Canadian water is distilled or RO-filtered], which can cause it to drop in pH very rapidly if there's nothing else to buffer the pH.

--
Mats

[venwu225]

great point, how could I have over looked that...!

[venwu225]

11/01/05:

All barbels regains turgidity, even though they seem "softer" and a bit more "irregular" on the surface then previous but that could be just me. When I did my water change in the morning he actively swam out in search of food. Energy level seems pretty high.

Fin clamping is just as bad, redness remains unchanged.

I adminstered less than 200mgs of erythromycin.

Thanks for the helpful comments, the first thing I will do when I get home will be to test and increase the pH.

I thought M.electricus were indifferent to pH levels, but it is true that they would not respond kindly to extremes.

Please keep up the great advice.

And what are the symptoms of fish experiencing acidosis?

thanks again.

[pturley]

venwu225 wrote:

I adminstered less than 200mgs of erythromycin.

Other than helping the bacteria in the tank gain antibiotic resistance, why in the world would you be adding this? Particularly when you don't even know what may be wrong with the fish.

If you feel the need to add a propylactic treatment, might I suggest you use a more generic product like Mela-Fix. Alot of members on this list are quite pleased with the results with this product.

How old are the powerfilters on this tank? I would suspect stray voltage as a possible culprit.

Another possiblity is simply lack of stability. 5 gallon tanks are so small, any addition of foods could have a direct, significant, short-term impact on water quality. Happen to have a larger tank floating around anywhere? Even moving him up to a 10 gallon (short term) would be a sizable improvement.

[venwu225]

You have a good point. But melafix's active ingredient is designated as tea tree oil... I just thought a broad spectrum antibiotic might be in need due the signs of inflammation on the animal. Such as redness on the caudal fin etc. I should stop, just still concerned about the what if.

Power filters are a month old for the cascade and 2 weeks old for the whisper 20. Insulation is good.

I would if I did, the next largest tank is a 29 gallon, which commands considerablly more work in terms of water change. And my water change is daily, I just thought consistent and frequent water change would be optimal in this case considering the fish is only 2 inches.

pturley or anyone: Do you have any personal experience with the young of this species? I am under the impression that Malapterurus sp. tend to be flexible in terms of pH and water conditions, being a riverine species. I understand that is not to say that the fish can with stand neglect (which does not happen).

And what are the symptoms of acidosis in a fish??

thanks again.

[venwu225]

The pH as been converted to 8.2 over 4 hours, and animal seems stable, except for the obvious fin clamping.

We will see what happens

[worton[pl]]

Hiya,

there are two kinds of acidosis and symptoms are of course different.

1. When softering the water was not rapid (for example by using some kind of special filter media) and you just softer water too much for this particulary species.
Symptoms:
-fish don't swim willingly (hard to say with catfish :))
-fish appear more languid than normal (again not so easy with catfishes)
-fish eats normally
-sometimes you can see vibrations of fins
-sometimes fish exude more mucus than normally (especially on gills cover)
-if ph is not really too much low for this species fish usually won't die, and this which die looks normal and eats untill the end

2. When softering the water was very rapid (for example putting fish in new tank)
-fish are swimming like crazy (flashy jumps around the tank)
-fish swim on their sides
-they are trying to leave the tank ;]
-on the end spasmodic convulsions appear and fish die :/

And why do they die? In acid water fish are breathing more rapidly so water volume swiming through gills is rising. It's because of fish blood characteristic - in acid water hemoglobin cannot react with so much O2 like in more alkaline water. So sometimes you can see symptoms similar with O2 deficit in the water. And fish die because of CO2 accumulation in their bodies (since O2 circulation is not working fine). It's ironic - they start to breath faster and faster :] because of lack of O2 and they just die faster that way since they are rising deficit.

But Imho if PH change was not rapid it's better to leave it or rise it really, really slowly to avoid stress - you can sometimes do more damage with rapid PH change than by doing nothing and left fish in a little too acid water.
You know there is also something like alkaline sickness :].

Regards.

[Dinyar]

Maybe you are not in a position to do these things, but I would recommend:

• Moving your e-cat to a 10 gal tank
  Keeping it without tank mates
  Keeping the pH around 7.0
  Doing 50% water changes once a week
  Feeding every 2nd day, and making sure there's no waste food in tank
  Using mature filters (what you're using now doesn't seem to be)
  Keeping the tank covered
  Not using antibiotics unless you have a clear and specific diagnosis

[venwu225]

Thanks for everyone's consideration and time:

The tank is and always has been covered.

Cycling a ten gallon (just bought) right now with a magnum 250 HOT hang on canister filter.

I feed tiny meals(earth worms, krill, pellets) sparingly, and I target feed specifically to the catfish with a plastic stick which has a plunt end, I never just throw food in the tank like most people.

I have stopped the antibotics, and I been taking out 4.8 L of water from the tank daily since day one, this is better than doing 50% water changes weekly. But I am aware of the point.

I thought a cycled filter thats a month and halve old would be considered mature? what qualifies as a mature filter then? I am genuiely asking.

Whats the optimal pH for ecats then? Online sources suggests hardward or high General hardness, and medium to high pH.

Update on ecat:

He is doing well, redness cleared up a bit. All Barbels in appearent health now, and still have the same gluttonous apetite.
Caudal Fin is still clamped.

And he doesn't seem to exhibit most of the symptoms of acidosis described except for the slight increase in body slime, which seems to be in recession.

[Dinyar]

I thought a cycled filter thats a month and halve old would be considered mature? what qualifies as a mature filter then? I am genuiely asking.

Not all the nitrifying bacteria in a tank are resident in the filter, some are in the tank (gravel, plants, walls, etc). Depending on circumstances, tank + filter can take several months to mature fully.

[venwu225]

Current state: pH 8.1, FIN Clamping as actually decreased, the caudal fin begins to expand out and reddness did decrease.

However, the upper left barbel begins to loss integrity and begins to curl like before. Reverting to the original state.

Animal's appetite is as healthy as ever.

[venwu225]

The animal completely recovered, after I increased the pH and maintained good water quality.

Fin clamping disappeared and no reddness remains, now he really eats like a machine.

And its very active and show obvious response to my presence around the tank.

Thanks for all the help, I will update on its progress.

[Dinyar]

Congratulations.

Unless it's the natural pH of your tap water, pH 8.1 is too high for this fish in a 10 gal tank. As you know, high pH --> high ammonia and nitrite, especially with a gluttonous fish in a small tank.

[venwu225]

I am gradually returning the pH to neutral.

current state of the catfish.



And here is a video of feeding:

http://students.washington.edu/venwu/ecat.MPG

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[natefrog]

That video is fantastic!! Congrats on bringing the fish back to health and good luck.

[venwu225]

Just a short update and thanks again for everyone's help:

The animal put on about one cm of growth, still very vigorous and now that he is in the tank alone, activity level of the fish has increased dramatically.

I put in 4 white mountain clouded minows from my friend's breeding cull, he took out 3 of them over night. I am going to try to digitally record the predatory behavior.