is this nasty

rfb · Post by **rfb** » 27 Sep 2005, 13:41

I was in my favorite fish store the other day and this young guy comes in and we start talking about the bristlenose I have bred and that when I bred my cories the parents got to the eggs first.I brought up the limited amount of space I have for tanks and he suggested that i use rubbermaid tubs I thought this to be strange and weird and nasty.I must have had a look on my of"I just spent all this time getting these fish to this stage just to put them in that and he said well if you want to see them cut a hole in the side so you can see them do it.Is this irresponsible or am I just being to strong on nthe rights of my fish.It does seeem to some degree viable but I question the ethics of it.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 27 Sep 2005, 13:59

Interesting question. I think the fish are perfectly happy living in black plastic rubbish bins, as far as they are concerned. As long as the water is clean and of the right temperature, sufficient and suitable food is availabe, I don't think the fish care the least bit about what shape or material, transparency and other things, the container is [they'd probably would prefer not to be in a cointainer if you asked them, but that's a different story].

The fact that most fish-tanks are made from transparent material is purely for the fish-keeper's benefit. The fish don't care...

In your opinion, why is this ethically wrong?

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Mats

rfb · Post by **rfb** » 27 Sep 2005, 15:19

I read this article on the fact that most people would think twice about putting a dog the size of a great dane in a space the size built for a border collie.When we get into the fish keeping hobby we seem at first to lose our minds and put fish in that small space.Is this not something that seems similar to this and is it not the responsability of us as the keepers to to give them the best space possibe and look after them is that not the whole idea of the hobby?I can see your point to oa degree they dont care but should we not?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 27 Sep 2005, 15:49

Ok, so maybe I misunderstood something. When I hear the term rubbermaid tub, I'm thinking of a larger thing than what you put your sandwiches or store orange juice in. More like a 5-10 gallon tub... Looking at the rubbermaid web-site shows all sorts of different plastic "tubs" from pocket-size to garbage bins, depending on which department you look at, so it's not clear in my mind that they had to be really SMALL.

In general, something that is more than 5L x 2L x 2L where L is the length of the fish. For small fish, that means something about 10 x 4 x 4 inches, or less than 1 us gallon (0.7 us gallon to be precise). I'm not saying this is the BEST you can do for your fish, but on the other hand, having other fish eat the eggs isn't the best you can do either, if you see what I mean.

Of course, small containers tend to have a problem with water quality, so using a bigger tank/container is obviously better for that reason. Cycling water between several tanks will also maintain stable water for longer and in a better way. Using partitions in bigger a tank is another option.

And having a BIG tank with few/small fish is even better for the fish...

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Mats

gemsonthebottom · Post by **gemsonthebottom** » 27 Sep 2005, 19:20

I know of one very large wholesale fish distributor that uses large concrete tubs to keep and breed some of there fish in. I also have a very good friend here where I live that also uses large Rubbermaid containers to breed some of his fish. I also know of someone that used horse troughs to breed Guppies in the summer.

Starsky · Post by **Starsky** » 28 Sep 2005, 03:46

So I guess it's not the appearance of the container that matters. It's the size. I agree that the glass aquariums are for our benefit and that fish would be perfectly fine in tubs provided they are big enough. Of course stocking ratios should be given a lot of attention, too, along with other parameters that are acceptable to needs of the fish.

bronzefry · Post by **bronzefry** » 28 Sep 2005, 14:09

Here's a larger Rubbermaid unit:
http://www.rcpworksmarter.com/rcp/produ ... cpNum=1721

I believe there's a link to the chemical resistance of this product, too. Rubbermaid makes a lot of items like this. I think these would make good sumps or resevoirs. I'm not so sure about long-term living/breeding facilities. But, that's just me.

Picklefish · Post by **Picklefish** » 03 Oct 2005, 13:57

I use this to put my fish out every summer. I alos have some of the 100G tubs. Once my new fishroom is built I plan on having several inside. They are alot cheaper than glass tanks and my fish really seem to like them. I know my fish come back indoors looking alot better for the time they spent out in the backyard. Heres a pic.

Picklefish · Post by **Picklefish** » 08 Oct 2005, 15:00

Took pic of the whole setup. I don't quite think these are the containers you are refering to however. I use alot of the smaller tote-sized ones in and around the fishroom. Very handy.

Azmeaiel · Post by **Azmeaiel** » 15 Oct 2005, 04:41

I have used the 35 gal 'butchers tubs' to raise fish successfully. They are much more durable than glass and besides the fact that the fishkeeper cannot see in there is no difference to a tank, I even find there is less expence with the heating because of the often thicker material in the tubs. As for welfare, that is up to the fishkeeper, ensuring adequate sized space and good water conditions.

sojapat · Post by **sojapat** » 18 Oct 2005, 20:08

I think that the fish dont care as long as the water is good !
Since when did the rivers and pools have glass sides ?
The fish would probably breed better and be more confident .

is this nasty

is this nasty

re ethics

Rubber tubs !