Angelicus & Fe

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 05 Mar 2003, 13:54

I once read that S. angelicus is attracted to iron. Is this true? Has anybody put it to the test?

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 13:59

What do you mean by "attracted"? And do you recall what the source of that statement was?

Dinyar

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:28

The source was a book but I don't remember which. I took 'attracted' to mean investigates and likes to be near submerged iron objects. I think this was based on observation in its natural habitat, and possibly how they could be found for capture. Sorry to be so vague.

Post by **Dinyar** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:42

I have no specific experience or info on this subject, but off-hand, can't think of any evolutionary reason why S. angelicus in particular should be especially interested in iron.

Guess you could put a piece of iron into your tank and see what happnes.

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 05 Mar 2003, 14:53

Ah, found the source among my catfish books. The statement is found in that old, old TFH book by Emmens & Axelrod simple entitled "Catfish".
It says there "This fish has been collected by the author (H.R.A.) congregating around iron, e.g. rusty metal submerged in the Stanley Pool at night".
My take on this: they're not really attracted to iron. They may be there because of some other reason (food? shelter?)

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 05 Mar 2003, 15:58

That's it, all right. Maybe they have a magnetic sense, like homing pigeons?
Guiding them as they migrate up and down the Congo?....

I suppose, having got this far, I'll have to try it out. It might even help confirm the I.D. of my 'squiggly' angelicus.

Post by **Silurus** » 05 Mar 2003, 16:16

Just make sure that all that iron in the water ain't gonna kill your fish.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 05 Mar 2003, 16:31

Well, pure iron would probably be okay (for a short time), but other metals mixed with it might not. That's what has put me off it up till now.

thefishdaddy · Post by **thefishdaddy** » 05 Mar 2003, 23:56

here is another literature from a march 1991 FAMA article page 155, entitled "CATFISH FOR RIFT VALLEY CICHLID AQUARIA" by Bill Volkart

S. angelicus catfish make a habit of burying themselves in the substrate and swimming and feeding in an upside-down position but in nature they have one more peculiar habit that, for the sake of the other fish, most hobbyists will never see first hand. For some as yet not fully understood reason, S. angelicus like to congregate and feed near rusting metal. They have even been seen by field observers apparently grazing on the rusty surface itself! It may be that the ferrous iron in the rust supplies a nutrient scarce in thier natural surrounding or the breed may just be quirky for some reason.
Only the fish, themselves, could tell us the real purpose. They would no doubt oblige since they are peaceful towards their tankmates and don't even tear up the plantings like some of their more rambunctious kin.

Post by **Dinyar** » 06 Mar 2003, 16:03

Several obvious fallacies in the quoted passage. S. angelicus does NOT:

* swim upside down (only very rarely, blue moons are more common)
* bury themsleves in the substrate
* act peacefully towards all tank mates

As for the rusty metal, I suspect this is one of those fish stories that gets more elaborate in the retelling.

Dinyar

thefishdaddy · Post by **thefishdaddy** » 08 Mar 2003, 09:11

another caption that I found in the Jan. 2001 issue of TFH mag. mentioning iron with S. angelicus in page 12 entitled "Notes and Observations on the Genus Synodontis" by Frank Caputo aka DarkAngel

Synodontis angelicus still has not been bred in captivity. It is thought that perhaps there is the need for some extra iron in the water to induce spawning, but this is just theory.

I hope Darkangel can elaborate more on this topic coz I am now inspired with his dedication on trying to breed this fish for the past 15 years maybe he can inform us on the things that dint work for him that way we can avoid the same mistakes....

For the past two years I have slowly acquired 6 Synodontis angelicus ranging from 2 - 7.5 inches and I tried venting them the other day and I am sure there is one female in the tank, now I am trying to go through all of my old fish mag. and books in search for more info of this fish and so far this board has the most answers specially to the max. size of the fish.....
Thanks

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 08 Mar 2003, 09:27

Silurus wrote:They may be there because of some other reason (food? shelter?)

Yes, I remember this from my first catfish book too. BTW, that book has Mystus leucophasis in it! I think it must be food - I cannot see Synodontis mass spawning in the numbers that are described and what shelter does rusting iron provide that a submerged log does not?

Also think this may all have been recorded from one group of people, on one night, at one location seeing this in the wild. Not very scientific but worth any investigation for sure.

Jools

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 12 Mar 2003, 14:56

Well, I tried putting a spare powerhead impeller in the tank, which is a safe experiment. The only fish which showed an interest was my Flash pleco (L204), and he lost interest once he had eaten the layer of scum which was on it.

So much for my hypothesis that angelicus is attracted to magnetic fields. (And in evolutionary terms, it wouldn't make much sense for them to try to 'congregate' around a Gymnarchus).

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 12 Mar 2003, 19:08

Actually it might; there must be a host of parasites that probably hate being in an electric field, and Syno's likely aren't eaten by the Gymnarchus due to their spines....
Mind you; this is pure brainstorming!

ggdhazel · Post by **ggdhazel** » 13 Mar 2003, 04:57

I remember reading that too. I've worked my way up to about a dozen Syn. angelicus. I keep them in a 300 gal rubbermaid tub in hopes of one day spawning them. I found one account in an old TFH mag. An article by Lee Finley cited a spawning by a guy who had angelicus in a tank with African cichlids. But back to the iron, I read that in a book and a magazine; and wondered if it was just coincidence or if they benefited from some organisms that might be attracted to the iron and rust soda cans.

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 19 Mar 2003, 13:28

There's probably a lot of new iron objects in the Stanley Pool for them to colonise,
thanks to recent human warfare.

Really, we need to hear from somebody who has collected them there.

Post by **Dinyar** » 19 Mar 2003, 14:46

There's probably a lot of new iron objects in the Stanley Pool for them to colonise, thanks to recent human warfare.

One of Stanley's great contributions was helping Leopold II, Duke of Brabant (Sid, please note!) and King of the Belgians turn the Congo into his personal kingdom, in the name of bringing "Civilization" to "darkest Africa". European colonialism was a dark chapter in history, but the darkest page of that dark chapter was the story of the serial atrocities committed by the Belgians in the Congo. Some 20 million residents of the Congo basin -- about 40% of the population of the time -- were systematically massacred by Leoplod II's minions over a 50-year period in the late 19th century. (These are well-documented, if little known, historical facts, not my opinions.) Human warfare around "Stanley Pool" has continued almost without interruption for more than 150 years. Congo's ongoing civil war is a direct result of the long history of genocide and destruction of local institutions perpetrated in the name of Belgian "philanthropy".

The MusÃ©e royal de l'Afrique Centrale (MRAC) -- THE leading center of research in African ichthyology -- was a monument built to celebrate this history (though in fairness, MRAC has recently begun to look more critically at its sordid past). Perhaps the only good thing that came out of Belgium's role in the Congo was a long and distinguished lineage of African ichthyologists. And maybe Belgian chocolate.

Dinyar