Redtail Is Not Eating

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 07 Jun 2005, 19:32

i have a redatail thas 4 inches long ive had it since mid april i don,t know if its a female or a male it just sits there doesn,t eat anything i put in it theres 5 timy goldfish hasn,t eat one yet it did eat all of the swardfish fry a month ago the stomache look like it swallowed a egg.. now i can,t get it to eat anything.. the water temp is 72. heres a pic.. any info would be great.. oh and its in a 55 gallon tank.. with a pair of swardfish and a pair of platys thas it.. i can,t put a pic on here anyone know how..

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 08 Jun 2005, 09:38

Maybe the problem is that the goldfish, even tho' tiny, aren't small enough.

You still haven't supplied any information on the water quality parameters (nitrate, nitrite and ammonia).

And you do realize that if this thing starts eating properly and is growing as it should, your 55 gallon tank will have to be replaced pretty soon. In the wild, these fish reach OVER 5 foot, and I would expect it to grow to at least three or four foot in captivity, assuming it's not starved or kept in bad water leading to stunted growth. For a 3-4 foot fish, you need a decent size pond, at least 8 foot deep and 8 foot wide and 16 foot long (you could of course build an aquarium that size too, but it's the size of a small room, and weighs tens of thousand pounds, so may not work in a house that isn't built specifically for this purpose...).

--
Mats

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:30

OH OK u mean 7 foot like shark size i never knew catfish can get bigger than 2 1/2 ft any kind of catfish.. i haven,t tested the water yet prlly will today or tommarrow.. how fast will this fish grow right now its 4 inches i had a picas catfish for 3 yrs in this tank only grew mabie 1 inch.. it died when i put the redtail in well 2months after..

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 08 Jun 2005, 17:47

Yes, definitely grow big...

Ok, so some catfish grow quite big, the biggest ones well over 10 feet (3 meter) and over 200 pounds/100kg. The redtail don't reach those sort of sizes, but it's certainly among the "tank-buster" section of catfish. The smallest catfish, on the other hand, is less than an inch long, so quite tiny in comparison. There are about 2500 known yet to be described "unknown" species.

It'll probably take a couple of years before it's too big to go in a "ordinary" aquarium, i.e. over a foot, but that depends on how well it's feeding (at the current rate, I susepect it's not going to grow very quickly, since something is obviously wrong).

Note: Obviously a standard 55g tank is just over a foot on one side, so according to the rule 4X x 2X x 2X, where X is the length of the fish, your current tank will be too small in about 2 inches of growth from it's current size, or when it's 6 inches long. You can probably exceed this rule by a little bit, but once it reaches about 8 inches, the tank is definitely too small. I'd say that you probably have less than a year before it reaches that size, assuming you can get it to feed properly.

You can find some info on the South American Red Tail here:

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Mats

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 08 Jun 2005, 20:18

wow thas to big for me.. what about picas catfish how fast do they grow i had one for 3 yrs but only grew like an inch was that normal..

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 09 Jun 2005, 03:25

By picas catfish, do you mean pictus? The pimellodeus pictus grows to a full grown adult size of around 6 inches for healthy specimens. If your pictus was far short of this, say the three inch range, I would say that it was likley being stunted by either poor conditions or poor quality food.

I don't intend to be too critical here, but to my mind you sound as though some more research into your purchases might avoid future problems. Having said that, I would wager a guess that 95% of us have made similar gaffs in judgement in the past.

If I were in your position, I would take the red-tail back to the pet store and ask for a credit towards a few smaller fish. Just a thought. Good Luck.

Post by **medaka** » 09 Jun 2005, 22:35

Hi Deanna

OH OK u mean 7 foot like shark size i never knew catfish can get bigger than 2 1/2 ft any kind of catfish

Have you read the sticky on large catfish

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=10494

i haven,t tested the water yet prlly will today or tommarrow

#
I take it you will be testing for

PH,GH,& Nitrate.Although you say its not feeding, can you do an Ammonia test as well please, and let us know what the reading is.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 10 Jun 2005, 18:29

ok what would be your point of the sticky i read it i didn,t choose the redtail it was given to my husband we never heard of it or anything we had pitcus and goldfish for about 2 yrs mabie a lit more they were just fine till i got this redtail.. so i thought i do some research it it seems to be eating now what? i haven,t figure out since all 4 tiny goldfish and the 2 swardfish and 2 plays are still there the red is starting to have a fat stomache like hes swallowed an egg means its eating right?

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 10 Jun 2005, 18:52

If all of the potential feeders are in the tank, it seems likley to me that he has either gotten an intestinal parasite or has eaten a peice of aquarium decor. Redtails are famous for eating things they aren't supposed to. If that is the case he will probably regurgitate it later.

If it is an intestinal parasite, tapeworm or the like, he can be treated with medication. My suggestion would be a treatmnet called prazipro. It can be used safley in the tank with the other fish and it is also a good preventative for predatory fish as they tend to get worms from feeders.

One other question for you...What food have you been putting in the tank that he could have eaten that would result in a full looking stomach. I ask because these are a predatory fish and often do not feed well on prepared foods when they are young. Shelled prawns or mussels are a possible food suggestion.

Again, good luck.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 10 Jun 2005, 18:57

the petstore here told me to feed it wardley's shrimp pelllets formula the others seems to like the food.. i don,t see any parasites or worms in the tank..

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 10 Jun 2005, 20:23

Fresh as opposed to pellet food would probably be better for him; however, if he is eating the pellets thats great. As for parasites, you would not likley see any in the tank itself, they are an internal affliction. You may, however, see worms coming out of his anus if he is afflicted, (or may not).

It would be good to know if you have actually seen him eating. It may mean feeding him right before lights out and then watching the tank with dim lighting from the room or an adjacent room. In the long run a variety of fresh, frozen, live or prepared foods will keep him healthy.

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 10 Jun 2005, 20:27

Also...sorry this hasn't been mentioned but often with these fish if they are not eating it can just be a sign that they are full. A juvenille should eat once every day or two, however; adult redtails may eat only one a week or even less.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 11 Jun 2005, 03:57

ive seen it eat the pellets before it eats like a shark.. what kind of frozen food the live don,t work i have 4 tiny goldfish guppy size ive had em for a week..

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 11 Jun 2005, 05:51

you could try the mussels, prawns, or frozen bloodworms, black worms, brine shrimp, or mysis shrimp.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 11 Jun 2005, 17:06

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 11 Jun 2005, 17:26

have you tested your water yet? that will tell us if there is something wrong that's causing him not to eat.

dancingdryad · Post by **dancingdryad** » 12 Jun 2005, 08:52

Hi

A couple of thoughts: It could be that your redtail has gone off his food a bit because he is adjusting to his new home. When I bought mine he took a couple of weeks to really get his appetite back and even started shedding his skin even though the water qualilty was fine and the tank water was just about the same as the shop water (I think it might have been caused by the degrading of water quality in the bag on the way home perhaps)

Try feeding him thawed out frozen mussel chopped, you can fill it like a sandwich with other foods such as carnivore pellets, fruit, veggies etc which will get him used to the new foods until he takes them without the mussel. I found with my redtail that he was very shy at first and didn't appear to want to eat anything. Now however he will eat just about anything including my fingers and even sticks his head out of the water and feels all up my arm with his whiskers searching for something edible.

At 4 inches he will probably be best on one mussel 'sandwich' chopped every other day or wait until his belly goes flat and he starts getting active, it might be better to take out the feeder fish so you can monitor exactly what he is and isn't eating.

As for growth rates mine started at just about 3.5 inches and within 2 months he'd hit just about 9 inches. They do grow very very fast and their appetite increases accordingly... so it sounds like there is something amiss with yours and maybe the rotund belly is caused by something other than food. If he's been eating mainly pellets then another possibility could be that he's a bit constipated? You could try some daphnia loaded into a mussel and see if that shifts things.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 14 Jun 2005, 07:14

ok now prob solved i think theres 2 baby goldfish missing and the redtail has been very active hasn,t hid in the castle and it just ate 2 feedings of some shrimp pellets creepy eats like a shark anyways i got some teststrips all five were off so i put stuff any ill test it again tommarrow the only 1 that was kinda bad was the water tested very hard.. i just messured it it was hard to he kept following the ruler around . its 4 and 1/2 inches right now now 1 question whats the smallest catfish u can have in a fish tank i mean as full size..

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 14 Jun 2005, 07:50

The smallest catfish that is availablein the aquarium trade is the pygmy cory, or coyadorus pygmyatus (?), as far as I know...I could be wrong.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Jun 2005, 10:28

is small, just over an inch. It's possible to get these in the aquarium trade, but to say that they are COMMON would be stretching things a bit.

The next size up, around 30mm (1 1/4" or so) have quite a few species, various Otocinclus spp, more Corydoras spp, etc, etc. I believe the Stone Catfish, and ends up in the "very small catfish" category.

--
Mats

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 14 Jun 2005, 20:53

ok ive takin a test strip heres the results
nitrate = 200
nitrate - 0
hardness 300
alkalinity 80
ph 7.2
pretty much the same as yeserday i put drops in it didn,t change

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 15 Jun 2005, 08:59

nitrate = 200
nitrate - 0

i hope that's the nitrAte that's 200, and not nitrIte!?

nitrates at that level are very bad, but a nitrite level of 200 is lethal to most fish.

do a 50% water change NOW!

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Jun 2005, 10:32

Like racoll said, do big water change now, then again the day after.

Your goal is to have a nitrate level of about 20 ppm (ppm == mg/l), or about one tenth of the current level, so you need to replace 90% of your water during the next few days. My guess is that you either haven't been changing water for a while, or you have plenty more fish than the tank can hold...

Nitrite and ammonia (you didn't mention the ammonia level, did you test it?) should always be zero, or you should start changing water.

--
Mats

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 15 Jun 2005, 16:43

yea the water hasn,t been change ill do that now that red ate my swordfish female oh well at lease it had a big belly now and now its in the castle i don,t have that an something on my test strip just the nitrate- that shows 0

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 15 Jun 2005, 18:09

sorry, i don't quite understand.

is nitrate 0?

if nitrate is zero, then nitrite must be 200?

if this is the case, your fish may die if you don't stop feeding them completely for one week, and change 50% of the water every day for 4 days.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 16 Jun 2005, 00:57

theres 2 nitrate = nitrate- is 0 and nitrate+ is 200 now its
nitrate +3 is 80
nitrate-2 is 0
hardness is 300
alkalinty 80\ph is either 7.2 or 7.8 ok
now i don,t understand why i can,t feed the fish for a week 2 of my swardfish platys are due (fry) any day..

Pimbuddy · Post by **Pimbuddy** » 17 Jun 2005, 05:27

Please DO Not do a big water change. I can't believe people are suggesting this. More than anything and the reason these fish shed mucus is because of water quality. They are very sensity to change and I like you was given one of these fish years ago and killed it by changing half the water. I reccomend 15 percent every 24hours. These fish urinate a great deal and if you don't have a good filtration system cycling the tank at least 2x an hour you will always have problems. There an amazing fish to keep after the reach 7 or 8 inches which is when they realize that you are the one that feeds them and they become hand tamed but do a great deal of research there is tons literature out there and talk to some people on the forum who have had larger fish, Big fish big commitment. Clear feeder shrimp work really well when they are young and then frozen larger shrimp and just about anything else they will consume.

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 17 Jun 2005, 06:39

i know what thing this redfish is alot more work before i had goldfish and platys, sucker fish some other fish i mabie cleaned the filter every 8 month or more usually when the filter water gets pluged i know im bad the water looked cleaned so leave it alone well somebody gives me a redtail it looked awesome i like it so i got rid of the goldfish and kept the 2 plays and bought 3 swordfish and kept the sucker fish the redtail ate one of the swordfish and the frys that was it it started sarving itself so i started this post and learning about redtails and now im a idiot. as soon as i change the water filter the redtail became active then yeserday i emptied little more than the tank put new water and water drops the cat fish ate 2 feeder goldfish that was left and he ate a swordfish i just bought the day before it looked so good its fat and active ill be testing the water tommarrow then monday ill messure him see if he got bigger im proud of myself a week ago he was half dead and now hes EATING every fish i have .. i have 3 left plus the two that are in breeders nets.. ive got some pics but their to big to put on here..

alwayz_luveable · Post by **alwayz_luveable** » 17 Jun 2005, 06:46

is it ok for the red to eat both live fish and pellets... jeese its eating again the pellets he just ate that goldfish sometime today cause it was there this morning.. oh can anyone tells male or female this it word is driving me nuts..

troi · Post by **troi** » 17 Jun 2005, 08:11

Have you read the sticky on large catfish

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=10494

I just reviewed this sticky and it makes me wonder if, should I really buy that five acres, new well, and HUGE concrete block building, I can consider my A. adonis my "small fish" and then put a red-tail in with an A. hystrix ;-)

First red-tail cat I ever saw was over six foot with a mouth big enough to decapitate my first born. Said first-born took one look at the fish, ran across the Steinhart and jumped into my arms, although she was bigger than I am. Since, I have fallen in love with those puppies--they really are like puppies, at every size from 2 inches to three feet, and first-born has developed a fondness for them in small doses. I would love on of those fish, after i get rich and buy up much of NM and lotsa solar panels.

troi