suitable catfish for arowana

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » 18 Apr 2005, 20:41

I am looking for a suitable catfish tank mate for a 12" silver arowana. It is currently housed in a 6'x2' tank. The water is slightly soft, and has a ph of 6, and a temperature of 80 f. I am looking for something large enough to not be considered lunch, but also not to aggresive. It will also be moved into larger accomadation, 8'x3' when it gets a bit bigger. I would be very gratefull for any suggestions. Thanks Rob.

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 18 Apr 2005, 21:48

In a tank of that size you are able to keep many of the larger catfish species. I have a 6'x2'x'2 with an 18" Siver and a 15" formosa arowana. I have a Perunichthys peruno and Pseudoplatystoma faciatum in the along with a big Gibbiceps. Teh bottom dwelling nature of the cats along with the surface dwelling nature of the Arowana mean no probs, I have had all mine from 3" and they have grown together. I would say as long as you are careful with the size at which you get the cats. No problems will occur.

Good Luck

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » 18 Apr 2005, 22:26

thanks eupterus!

street cypher · Post by **street cypher** » 19 Apr 2005, 08:38

I had a 9" lima in a 6 X 2 X 2 with a 12" green asian.

The green gave the lima a weekly beating. They were ok for a while, then the aro decided it didn't want to share (go figure). The lima is in the process of going to a more suitable tank.

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 19 Apr 2005, 10:13

The problem with using Sorubium Lima is that they are not entirely bottom dwelling, and spend some time mid water hence the lengthend lower rays of the tail fin. The Arowana may have seen this as an infringment of territory.
Limas are also no where near as robust as the peruuno and shovelnose. which may have been a problem.

fishmadbarry · Post by **fishmadbarry** » 19 Apr 2005, 20:19

I have a Brachyplatystoma Juruense in a tank with similar water chemistry to yours and its
thriving. Considering that he only gets to 24", mostly hangs around the bottom and looks great this species would make a great companion for a silver arowana. Steer well clear of red tail cats. I had a 2' one eat a 14" clown knife fish before only to sick it back up after 2 days

. They will eat anthing that fits and try to eat most things that don't.

Barry

Post by **medaka** » 19 Apr 2005, 21:39

Hi big rob

I suppose it will all depend in the end on how much money you are willing to outlay. although not a catfish. sting rays would make an nice addition, but if you have the money
there are some nice large royal panaque at a well known LFS within easy travelling range from your home.
if not you could always try gatting hold of some of the following:-
Hypostomus Margaritifer, Leporacanthicus Galaxias, Pseudocanthicus Serratus, Pseudocanthicus Spinosus,
& Pseudocanthicus Leopardus..

I am looking for something large enough to not be considered lunch, but also not to aggresive

my Spinny monster (Pseudocanthicus Spinosus) which was around 150mm SL, was quite happy sharing its tank with a wide range of fish, from large plecs to small bristle nose, didnt harm a thing..

fishmadbarry · Post by **fishmadbarry** » 19 Apr 2005, 22:15

Megaladoras Irwini

Pseudadoras Niger (I Know the name has probably changed and I dont really care what its changed to, it was irritating enough to relearn all the malawi c*****d names only for them to be changed all over again. Any book in the average keepers price range will have the original name and maybe a common name, where as any up to date Â£Â£Â£Â£'s worth of book will have all relavent names)
Sorry just needed to get that off my chest.

Barry[/u]

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » 20 Apr 2005, 23:43

Hi medaka,

there are some nice large Royal Panaque at a well known LFS within easy travelling distance from your home.

Which LFS are they at? and what sort of size are they?

Thanks, bigrob.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Apr 2005, 10:08

bigrob wrote:Hi medaka,

there are some nice large Royal Panaque at a well known LFS within easy travelling distance from your home.
Which LFS are they at? and what sort of size are they?

Thanks, bigrob.

Don't know the LFS, but Royal Panaque, or Royal Pleco is the common name for .

--
Mats

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 21 Apr 2005, 13:16

fishmadbarry wrote:Megaladoras Irwini

Pseudadoras Niger

P. niger gets way too big for anything but the most extreme home aquarium. You're looking at 1000 gallons to adequately house an adult.

Post by **medaka** » 21 Apr 2005, 15:20

hi Bigrob

Which LFS are they at? and what sort of size are they?

Peir Aquatics Wigan, last time I was there they had 2 left
I think they are Â£150.00 ea they are approx 250mm to 300mm SL and approx 130mm body depth

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » 21 Apr 2005, 20:43

Thanks Medaka, I'll go and have a look!

fishmadbarry · Post by **fishmadbarry** » 22 Apr 2005, 20:18

P. niger gets way too big for anything but the most extreme home aquarium. You're looking at 1000 gallons to adequately house an adult.

Does this mean bigrob's 8x3 isn't adequately big enough for his silver arowana?

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 23 Apr 2005, 15:21

fishmadbarry wrote:Does this mean bigrob's 8x3 isn't adequately big enough for his silver arowana?

IMO yes. A fish with the potential to reach over 1 metre in length should have at least more than its own body length as the shortest horizontal dimension of its enclosure, and the other horizontal dimension should be several times the body length as a minimum. Having previously maintained Arowana of around 30" in a 1000 gallon aquarium, I feel that even this would have been insufficient for a fully mature fish.

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 23 Apr 2005, 17:14

How about cl*rius b*trachus? That is if you don't mind putting an asian fish witha south american.

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 23 Apr 2005, 17:39

I think that you are splitting hairs a bit Coelocanth. I am sure that we all agree that Arowanas and all of the cats mentioned are far better in the wild but to state a 1000 gallon tank in insufficient for a P niger is quite frankly rediculous ( no offense , I hope none will be taken ) A niger woul be perfectly happy for in an 8x3x3 tank. Some body else suggested Pseudocanthicus sp as tank mates and as much as I appreciate that they CAN be fine will arrowana, Nobody tells the arrowana that it will get stuck in your throat. If you want my honest opinion the problem fish is very much the arowana, as these fish have evolved over millions of years to feed on bird etc on overhead branches, If i were to play devils advocate i would argue no tank would be big enough and a pond is the onyl suitable setting for a fish of this size and design

But then who am I?

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Apr 2005, 11:40

eupterus wrote:to state a 1000 gallon tank in insufficient for a P niger

I didn't. I said that you need 1000 gallons to adequately house an adult. That assumes an adult length of 3ft (which is what P. niger should reach assuming it has not had its growth restricted by poor care). Unless it is assumed to be acceptable to house a fish in an enclosure which does not allow it to turn with ease, that means an aquarium with the smallest horizontal dimension significantly greater than the length of the fish (i.e. significantly greater than 3ft). In order to allow the fish enough room to swim more than twice its own body length even in just in one horizontal direction, that means an aquarium greater than 9ft long. Bearing in mind that we should not be looking just to meet minimum standards (we are supposed to be caring and responsible aquarists, aren't we?), but to go beyond them, that means having an enclosure with a footprint of 10ft X 4ft, or preferably above. In adequate housing P. niger will make use of the full water column, so a water depth at least equal to the length of the fish should be aimed for. That gives a net gallonage of around 750 gallons. By the time freeboard, decor etc. is taken into account, an enclosure with a gross gallonage very close to 1000 gallons is what is required.

eupterus wrote: A niger woul be perfectly happy for in an 8x3x3 tank.

Taking a much smaller species of catfish that can be assumed to be somewhat analogous, would a 3" Opsodoras be "happy" in an aquarium 8" X 3" X 3"?
Or a 2" Corydoras in an aquarium 5" X 2" by 2"?
I'm fortunate enough to have direct access to veterinary and ethical advice and information from one of the UK's premier specialist exotic veterinarians, and I base my opinions on discussions I have had with him on how to correctly interpret the basic standards for animal welfare as laid down by DEFRA for long-term captive environments.
I'm always happy to discuss this further as long as any arguments are based on science rather than whatever is convenient for the resources any given individual is willing to allocate to captive fish.
Pete

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 24 Apr 2005, 15:56

eupterus wrote:In a tank of that size you are able to keep many of the larger catfish species. I have a 6'x2'x'2 with an 18" Siver and a 15" formosa arowana. I have a Perunichthys peruno and Pseudoplatystoma faciatum in the along with a big Gibbiceps.

Nice. So, what are you going to do with the Pseudoplatystoma when it reaches half size then? Sure they might be happy for now, but what happens when they don't stop getting bigger...

Jools

eupterus · Post by **eupterus** » 24 Apr 2005, 17:06

Get a bigger tank , as is standard with most fish keeping. I am glad to see the response that one gets when someone dares to conflict opinions with those so influential as admin and moderators. My apologise i will assume my degree and 20 years experience as useless from now on.
Again my applogies for conflicting with the status quo.

bigrob · Post by **bigrob** » 24 Apr 2005, 20:39

Just to clarify, the arrowana is currently housed in a 6'x2'x2' tank in my fish room. I am planning on moving it in to the house into the 8'x3'x3'tank purly because it's a beautiful fish to have swimming arround in my lounge. This tank however will only be it's home for a couple of years until it is to large, it will then be moved into my tropical pond in the fish room. I would like to keep it in the house, but a tank larger than this is not practical for in the house. The original question was what could it be housed with while it is in the 8'x3'x3'. Although I would probably be able to move them along with the arrowana into the pond if they are going to get to big for the tank.

Thanks for all the help. bigrob.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Apr 2005, 21:34

bigrob wrote:This tank however will only be it's home for a couple of years until it is to large, it will then be moved into my tropical pond in the fish room.

Sorry Bigrob, we got distracted from your question. A tropical pond is as ideal a home for an Arowana as you're going to get, and they do look very attractive from above.
I had no problem with larger Loricariid Cats and Arowana myself, plus medium-sized Doradids. It might be worthwhile hunting round for Pseudodoras holdeni, based on what I've been able to find out they don't get as large as P. niger but have a very similar appeal.
I'd avoid the larger Pims, I found that being nocturnal they may disturb Arowana and make them more prone to jumping (something to consider anyway whether in a tropical pond or aquarium, better to have a cover or screen that can be removed for feeding/maintenance/viewing). If you can source well grown Platystomatichthys or Hemisorubim these have all the charm of the larger Pims and none of the drawbacks, they are a couple of my favourite fish for the larger aquarium.
Some larger Auchenipterids may be OK, but be careful, as some of them may be overtly predatory. Parauchenipterus galeatus (or whatever they are currently placed in) were fine, but some Trachycorystes can be real swines and don't be tempted by Asterophysus even if one is available, I saw a group of these at a friend's import facility and they are gluttons.
Pete

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 25 Apr 2005, 09:23

eupterus wrote:My apologise i will assume my degree and 20 years experience as useless from now on. Again my applogies for conflicting with the status quo.

20 years experience of doing what? If that's 20 years of keeping big cats then aren't your cats a little on the small side.

If it's 20 years of something else, what specific relevance does this have here?

Don't worry about the status quo, I for one certainly prefer being corrected when I'm wrong. I hope I will never be blinded by "experience" however.

Jools

PS I have a first class honours degree, this is the first time I've mentioned it in this forum (or indeed any other). I prefer to talk about fish rather than blow my own trumpet.

natefrog · Post by **natefrog** » 26 Apr 2005, 05:10

Pride seems to be front and center in this hobby, whether it be how educated we are, how many tanks we have or what strange rare species we have. It would be nice if we could get past that and recognize a little humility, the fish deserve it.