Stocking my new 55 Gallon!

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 12 Feb 2005, 04:53

Now that the 55 gallon has is set up (since Monday) and our currenty finny-friends have moved in (as of tonight), our thoughts turn to who should keep them company.

This tank does get some direct sunlight at various points during the day, so we know algae is going to be an issue. (We have an open structured house - there are no sun-free locations) It is also a very planty-tank. We have 20 plants in there.

Current residents:
1 common pleco 2" (we know he'll need a bigger tank one day)
5 cardinal tetras.

We'd like to get another five cardinal tetras after everyone has had time to settle in here, but that is our only definite plan at present.

I'm leaning towards a small group of Ottos (six), and a few cory cats (no idea which ones, other than the smaller species).

Do you think the common pleco and six ottos will be enough to keep the algae down? I'm intrigued by the algae loving nature of the bristle-nose catfish.

I'd also like to get another pleco - one of the smaller varieties - one who would be able to stay in a 55 gallon tank (unlike my common pleco.)

I'd really appreciate your suggestions and feedback!

Thank you!
Erin

Post by **Shane** » 12 Feb 2005, 15:30

Erin,
Here are my suggestions,
1) Get rid of the common. If it has not already, it will soon begin eating your plants.
2) Up the number of Cardinals. 20 or so look a lot better and are happier.
3) Potential algae control: 4-6 otos, 2-3 Ancistrus, 4-6 Hypoptopoma or other Hypoptopominae. 3-4 Farlowella, or 2-3 Sturisoma.
4) Add a second (5-10 members) or third tetra spp. (say 5 and 5 of two spp.) to fill things out and add some color. Stay with small tetra spp. Or stay with 20 Cardinals and add 3-5 of a small cichlid sp. like Apistogramma or rams or forget the cichlids and add 5-7 corys. The cichlids or corys will add action to the lower levels of the tank.
-Shane

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 12 Feb 2005, 18:43

Shane,

Great - I love Cardinals, so the more, the merrier. Think I could do 20 cardinals and handful of zebra dannios or fancy guppies for the mid/upper tank level action?

I'm afraid I can't get rid of the common. The whole reason we got the bigger tank was really for him. If he eats the plants, then he eats the plants. Now - we're planning on moving in about a year, at which point we'll add a larger tank for Mr. Plec, and then we can have the two tanks - planted and non. I do give him fruits and veggies (as suggested in the forums and articles) so maybe that will curb the plant eating. Thus far - he's only eaten dead leaves, algae, and what ever I feed him.

I love otos, so I'll go with the 4-6 otos for the algae control then.

I'd rather do corys than cichlids. Any suggestions on cory species? I prefer the smaller ones.

Also - thank you for the suggestions in the other thread. I had never thought about the importance of a tank back for the inhabitants comfort level. Will turn off the bubbler.

Erin

Post by **Shane** » 12 Feb 2005, 20:15

Erin,
I would not mix a Hypostomus with Otos as the Otos will never be able to compete for food and will starve. Your Hypostomus will give you more than enough algae control. Danio are typically clear fastwater fishes. Cardinals come from slow blackwaters. I would not mix the two. Fancy guppies are an option, I just hate "fancy" fish and prefer the real deal. 20 Cardinals with say 10 black neon or emperor tetras is a nice sight.
Just about any cory sp. will do.

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 12 Feb 2005, 21:18

I would not mix a Hypostomus with Otos as the Otos will never be able to compete for food and will starve. Your Hypostomus will give you more than enough algae control

Oh bummer.

I was so looking forward to a little school of Otos. But I'll cope.

The black neons or emporor tetras sound nice. I just looked at some pictures - the Purple Emperor Tetra look beautiful!

Now - what is a "cory sp" (specificially the "sp"). Thank you!

Erin

Post by **corybreed** » 12 Feb 2005, 23:27

Erin,

sp = species.

Mark

pictus_man_77 · Post by **pictus_man_77** » 13 Feb 2005, 09:48

you should get some spotted hillstream loaches if you wanted to keep all of those oxygen thins.Or get 2 kuhli loach

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 13 Feb 2005, 11:01

hi, unfortunately the plec will take up huge amounts of your potential stocking space

i would recommend what shane says. try not to be too sentimental about the common plec. they are not particularly good aquarium fish. they are too big and will cause filtration problems when they get large. take him back to the store while he's still young.

then you can choose from the wealth of different plecos (browse the cat-elog under family-Loricaridae). there are hundreds to choose from that are much more manageable and pretty.

my girlfriend's got a sentimental attachment to a pair of kribensis that control 4 feet of my 5 foot display tank. she won't let me get rid of them.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 14 Feb 2005, 10:34

I agree with Shane. It's better to get rid of the Common pleco now, than to keep it for a few years and THEN have to get rid of it.

Ancistrus are nice, stay relatively small, are very active, and if you get a male and a female, you'll most likely get some babies too. Of course, that can be as much of a pain as a pleasure. I've had to split mine up, as my male is currently sitting on the second lot of eggs and I've already got 25-30 that are about two weeks old.

There are many other species of "pleco" (Loricariids) that will control algae, and look pretty... There are literally hundreds of different species, and many of them grow to somewhere between 5 and 8 inches, which is about the limit on a 55g tank.

Have a look in your LFS to see what they've got available, then go look at the Cat-eLog to see what the fish will grow to and what it eats. If it's a match with what you want and can sustain, go buy it. If not, start over looking at other ones.

I also like cory's. They are nice addition to any tank.

--
Mats

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 14 Feb 2005, 18:26

Asking me not to get sentimental about an animal, and especially about a pet, is like asking me not to breath. I'm a wildlife rehabber, and I've got two miserable cats that I'd rather not have (being a bird person) but they were strays and I couldn't find homes for them.

I agree with Shane. It's better to get rid of the Common pl*co now, than to keep it for a few years and THEN have to get rid of it.

Okay - why is that better? If I take him back to the pet store, he's just going to be too big for someone elses tank. Believe me - I appreciate what ya'll are saying. I'm prepared to get him a big tank one day, but I don't want to. I'd rather just have one tank, and the 55 gallon is just the right size.

But dammit - he's so cute, and so inquisitive, and I've been sentimental about him since the drive home from Walmart. This is a hard one.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 14 Feb 2005, 18:59

it's best to get rid of him now for purely practical reasons.
the fish shop will probably accept it when it's small (and therefore re-saleable).

when it grows into a monster they'll probably not take it off your hands, as they may find it hard to sell it.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 15 Feb 2005, 09:10

As Racoll said..

Yes, they'll certainly sell him to someone else that may not take better care than you can. But unless you're prepared to get a tank that is about 6'x3'x3' (preferrably bigger) to keep your common pleco happy, I'd say that you should consider getting something that doesn't grow so big.

I understand exactly the point about not being sentimental, it's not possible... But I think it's going to get even harder if you keep the fish for longer, for the reason that you're even more attached to the fish...

I wish they had (bigger) warning signs for fish that grow past about 8". That would solve a lot of problems like this one. Of course, it's even worse with some of the predatory catfish, like the Red-tail catfish that grows to about five foot in nature, and you need a full-room-sized tank to keep one...

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 15 Feb 2005, 17:24

why common plecos are the staple in most shops i have no idea

there should be a voluntary ban (much in the same way as dye injected fish) to raise awareness of fish that are clearly not suitable for the aquarium trade.

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 15 Feb 2005, 19:55

Well - I've gone from out and out rejecting the idea of removing my common pleco, to considering it. If anyone else has any opinions, I'd appreciate them.

I'm thinking about asking my LPS if they would "adopt" my pleco. They have just set up a second, aquarium only store, and it seems like its worth asking, anyway, if they would take my pleco and give him a permanent home as house-keeper in one of their tanks.

Anyway - I'm thinking about it.

Erin

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 15 Feb 2005, 20:08

Great news! I just got off the phone with my local aquarium store owner, and he says that he would be happy to give my common a good home when he gets larger. He has a huge display aquarium in the front of the store (where it gets a lot of light), and he wants more large plecos to keep it clean. Tom says keep my common until he's ready for a size up, and he'll take him.

As long as I know he'll have a good home, I don't mind giving him away. We're planning on moving in about 15 months, and Tom is going to "kennel" or other fish then, too, so maybe that will be the perfect time for Mr. Plec to move.

What a relief!

gibbylover2 · Post by **gibbylover2** » 18 Feb 2005, 07:28

Contrary to other opinions, i reckon that if you really love this catfish and are prepared to give him a big home, why not go with your desires? better you look after him in a proper set up tank, which may be 6 foot and still slightly too small, than someone else buy him and not look after him properly. i gave away my gibby for the same reason, and felt like i'd given away a baby. now i'm setting up a catfish tank, and have bought 2 gibbies and a gold nugget plec, with a view to getting a 6 foot tank eventually. i say if you do what you really love, you'll do it well and hence in this case look after it well. i initially was reluctant to get cats, and then my first tank for a similar reason, because i felt like as we hadn't bought our own house yet and may go overseas we shouldn't. but i'm glad we have got cats and fish now, even if we are not as portable, because i thoroughly enjoy them. isn't that what life is about?

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 19 Feb 2005, 05:00

Contrary to other opinions, i reckon that if you really love this catfish and are prepared to give him a big home, why not go with your desires? better you look after him in a proper set up tank, which may be 6 foot and still slightly too small, than someone else buy him and not look after him properly

Thank you for the opinion. I think we're just in a good place now. We know we can place our pleco in a good home if we have to, but for now - we'll just go with the flow. He's an awesome fish. We're all really enjoying him.

Erin

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 20 Feb 2005, 02:01

I feel awkward about creating a new thread every time I have a question, and if I'm bothering ya'll with noob questions - please let me know.

My 55 gallon has been running for about 12 days, and has had fish in it for 8 days. The amonia level has been perfect (I test every day) but the nitrite level keeps going up. We did a partial water change on Thursday.

Today is the first day it has been officially in the stress level (its probably about 1.2), and my instinct is to do another water change. The nitrate level remains safe (and actually seems to be going down). I also have a lot of plants in the aquarium.

Now - I know the nitrite level is supposed to spike as the aquarium cycles. My instinct is to do another water change, but will that mess up the cycle?

TIA!
Erin

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 20 Feb 2005, 03:48

Another question.

Our tank currently has 9 cardinal tetras and the one small common pleco. After the tank finishes cycling for these, we're adding 10 purple emporer tetras. After the bacteria cycles up from that, we want to add a small school of panda corys. Can we get six, or should we stick to four?

Current:
9 Cardinals
1 Pleco

Next 1-2 weeks:
10 purple emporer tetras

2-3 weeks later:
?? Panda Corys

3 weeks later - would there be "room" for a few more tetras? Maybe the silver tail or glow light tetras?

Thank you!
Erin

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Feb 2005, 12:44

it sounds like everything is working as it should.

the more water changes you do, the longer it will take for your tank to cycle, as the concentrations of nitrite and ammonia will be too low.

however, you must balance this over the potential harm you may do to your fish. the pleco can handle it, the cardinals may not.

it's probably best to do small regular water changes to keep on top of the nitrite.

as far as stocking goes, about 2 inches per gallon is about right. depending on filtration. a messy fish like a common pleco will probably take up double it's quota. ie a 3 inch pleco will require 6 inches.

obviously take in to account the fully grown size of the fish.

this is only a guide, and will depend on so many things.

go for more cories. they like a big shoal.

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 20 Feb 2005, 16:46

Racoll,

Thank you for the advice and tips.

And - can you please tell me what you mean by a shoal. I've heard the phrase several times here now, but I don't know what it means in terms of aquariums.

Thank you!
Erin

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 20 Feb 2005, 18:04

i believe you crazy americans call it a school.

it's a description of how fish of generally the same species tend to found in large tight groups of fish of their own kind.

like a flock of birds or a herd of cows.

can be used as a noun or a verb. a shoal, or to shoal.

in terms of an aquarium it means a group of more than about 3 shoaling fish.

fish that commonly shoal are tetras and danios.

hope that wasn't patronising in any way.

Bead Queen · Post by **Bead Queen** » 20 Feb 2005, 18:19

LOL - not at all.

I live near the Chesapeake Bay, and when I think of a shoal, I think of a shallow area, or an area that may be exposed regularly depending on the tide.

So what do you think - 55 gallon tank - how many pandas should I get for them to be happy?

Thanks!
Erin

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Feb 2005, 14:19

Cories like their own kind, chasing each other, and such. The more the merrier, but obviously everything has it's limits. I'd start with 5 or so. You can add more later on if you still have "capacity".

The rule about 2" per gallon, etc is a good one if you haven't got a better method...

The other way to determine the population capacity is to check the nitrate levels before your regular water-change, and see that the level is still low. If the pre-change level is low, then you can add more fish. [This assumes that you haven't recently added new fish, and that your tank is fully matured]. By low, I mean a lot less than 20 ppm, maybe about 10 ppm or so. Once it's starting to near 20 ppm, you got to do one of several things:
- thin out the population.
- change water more often.
- change more water.
- improve filtration.
- combination of the above.

--
Mats