albino lost its fin! help!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 12 Dec 2004, 09:19

hi! im a newbie to the forum and to corys world. i recently got 1 albino cory because i was told it would help keep the tank clean. so, i put it in the tank with my pleco, my water snail and my slider turtle. when the turtle saw it, she tried to eat it, but it was faster and managed to hide under the rocks. two days passed and it was fine, but this afternoon i noticed it was missing his tail's fin (im sorry i dont know how to call it). i felt so guilty!! is it going to survive w/out its fin? should i remove it from the turtle tank? im thinking about getting a 10 gallon tank and 5 more to make him company. plz help!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 12 Dec 2004, 20:22

no one willing to help me?

i am definitely taking him out of the tank, but i need to know if a 5 gallon would work, or a 10 gallon is better. can it be a terrarium fill up halfway with water or does it have to be an aquarium?

hes fine, but a he spends most of the time hiding under the rocks. he can swim. it's a little akward tho.

plz any help?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Dec 2004, 09:40

chrisinha wrote:no one willing to help me?

i am definitely taking him out of the tank, but i need to know if a 5 gallon would work, or a 10 gallon is better. can it be a terrarium fill up halfway with water or does it have to be an aquarium?

hes fine, but a he spends most of the time hiding under the rocks. he can swim. it's a little akward tho.

plz any help?

Well, I guess all the really helpful people where out last night...

First of all, you should keep more than one cory, because they like company of their own specie.

As to whether your fish will survive or not is up to higher powers. If it's doing fine at the moment, that's a good start, but unfortunately not a guarantee that it's not seriously hurt.

Moving it away from whatever hurt it in the first place is probably a good idea. For temporary measures, you can keep it in a bowl, bucket or whatever, just as long as the temperature and aeration is sufficient to keep it from being too stressed. A bowl with an airstone floating in the current tank would work just fine.

I've heard good things about a medication called Melafix, which is supposed to help healing. I've not needed to use it, so I don't know if it's as good as some of the reports, but it may be worth a try.

Best of luck.

--
Mats

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 14 Dec 2004, 01:34

thank you!

hes already in the new tank with two baby guppies. im planning on getting more corys. i have a 10 gallon aquarium. how many can i get?

i treated the water with conditioner, but it looks a little cloudy. what should i do?

Allan · Post by **Allan** » 15 Dec 2004, 02:57

If the 10 G is a single species tank, I would say 7 would be a good number.

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 16 Dec 2004, 02:29

no, there are 1 pleco and 2 small guppies with him in the same tank. here's a picture of him when he was still in the turtle tank. the photo didnt come out very good but you can see what happened to his tail

Allan · Post by **Allan** » 17 Dec 2004, 12:12

That is very bad, but i am actually quite sure that (s)he can and will live on. But it is disabled, and i would probably choose to put it down, as i often find it the most humane choice. Not that I would ever blame anyone for not doing it, it is hard to kill a lovely fish.

Most pleco's outgrow a 10 G. If it is not a single species tank as mentioned, I would still keep at least 5 corys (same species).

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 17 Dec 2004, 17:11

please, dont blame for this, but i just cant kill the cory!

sorry. he's fine. he can swim, he's eaten, he can still reach the surface of the tank. i want to give him a chance. im going to get more albino corys to make him company. i hope they dont "reject" him for being disabled

and in the future i will upgrade their tank.

thanks for your response!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 17 Dec 2004, 21:23

here's an update!

it's 13:20 right now and i went to check on him and you'll probably think im going crazy but i can swear his tail fin is growing back!!!!

lets see... maybe i am going nuts!!

Untitled · Post by **Untitled** » 17 Dec 2004, 23:34

Hi,

You're not crazy, fins do grow back, depends how bad it got. By the look of it in the picture it looks as if somebody bit off most of his fin, but it didn't actually wound the base of it, which is good news as it will grow back as new (well, maybe he'll have a scar on the fin, but maybe not). Using Melafix, as Allan suggested, will help the healing process even if it has started growing back by itself. It will also help the fish fighting off other problems while it's getting better.

One more thing, though. Although cories do eat food that wasn't eaten by the other fish it doesn't mean that they're going to keep your tank clean. You will still have to clean your tank, especially the gravel, as a buildup of waste in the gravel could lead to bacterial problems with the cories and they'll deteriorate quickly.

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 18 Dec 2004, 00:15

Untitled wrote:Hi,

You're not crazy, fins do grow back, depends how bad it got. By the look of it in the picture it looks as if somebody bit off most of his fin, but it didn't actually wound the base of it, which is good news as it will grow back as new (well, maybe he'll have a scar on the fin, but maybe not). Using Melafix, as Allan suggested, will help the healing process even if it has started growing back by itself. It will also help the fish fighting off other problems while it's getting better.

One more thing, though. Although cories do eat food that wasn't eaten by the other fish it doesn't mean that they're going to keep your tank clean. You will still have to clean your tank, especially the gravel, as a buildup of waste in the gravel could lead to bacterial problems with the cories and they'll deteriorate quickly.

ok, where do i find Melafix? and how do i use it?
i've already noticed i need to clean the tank. it gets on my nerves to see all the dirt... lol
i got 3 more corys today. i hope it will make him feel better by having some company now!
thanks for helping!!

Untitled · Post by **Untitled** » 18 Dec 2004, 00:36

Melafix, by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, can be bought in almost any fish shop here in the UK. As it's imported from America, I think it's even easier to get it there.

Melafix should be added directly to the water, 5ml for every 10 gallons. API recommends removing the carbon, but I don't bother.

I personally think that Melafix is very potent, so I start with giving half the dose for the first two days just to get the fish used to it first. API also recommend using it with Pimafix, but I have never done that and still had good results.

As for the gravel, keeping it clean is very important. One thing to make sure though is that you don't clean the gravel and the filter at the same time you are risking losing too many of your nitrifying bacteria which means having an ammonia and nitrite spike until things go back to normal. I also use one of those battery gravel vacuums where the water go back to the tank after the rubbish was filtered. That way I can clean my gravel every day (or every other day, if I'm lazy) while leaving my water changes for the weekend.

Congratulations for the new cories. I think you will be happy with them. It always make me laugh to see them swimming together, following each other but never really knowing who leads the way.

troi · Post by **troi** » 18 Dec 2004, 01:28

chrisinha wrote: think im going crazy but i can swear his tail fin is growing back!!!!

That's a lucky fish! The turtle only damaged the fin and didn't get the true base of the tail, so it should be grwoing back. Once fins start growing back, they usually grow back amazingly fast.

Melafix is tree trea oil and can't hurt, may well help. I think it is nice you already got him some guys to play with. with cories, the more the merrier. I like four to six (perferred) of each kind. Sounds like the tank can handle it.

If this is a new tank, watch you ammonia! and nitrite.

good luck,

troi

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 18 Dec 2004, 03:16

thanks you guys so much for your help! im going to look for Melafix here! I'll keep you posted! he looks much happier now. one of the "new" cories has been keeping him company all the time! lol

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 18 Dec 2004, 22:11

this is an update.

im worried about my cory... he hasnt moved much. he's been hiding most of the time, and compared to the other corys, his breathing seems a little slower. i've bought melafix this morning and poured 1 tsp into the aquarium. i also got a pump because i was told it would help improve the oxigen level.

i dont know what else i can do...

how do i check the levels of amonia and nitrate?

Allan · Post by **Allan** » 19 Dec 2004, 00:10

Using Melafix, as Allan suggested, will help the healing process even if it has started growing back by itself

I have no experience with melafix, and it might be good. But I would not use any medication in a case like this - unless the wound got infected, and it is not so far.

The wound will heal, but i seriosly doubt that the finn will grow back in this case, it is to serious an amputation.

how do i check the levels of amonia and nitrate?

You need to buy a testkid. You should be able to get that at the local petstore.
All lfs i know have the basic teststrips (25 for approx 15-20$), they measure NO2, NO3, ammonia,carbonate hardness and pH. These are not very accurate, but good enough to give you an idea.

I would think, that the reason he is breathing slower is that he has been eating less, and has lower metabolism. I think you are doing all you can here, and I like your caring spirit.

troi · Post by **troi** » 19 Dec 2004, 03:38

chrisinha wrote: he's been hiding most of the time, and compared to the other corys, his breathing seems a little slower.
how do i check the levels of amonia and nitrate?

He has been thru a lot. A turtle attack, a big injury, a new tank and now new roommates! Wouldn't you hide? He is probably pretty stressed. Let him hide for awhile, make sure he can get away from the more rambunctous new fish.

You get test kits at the local fish store or pet store. Follow the instructions on the package. They are very serious aobut rinseing the tube in tank water but never put the tube in the tank; use a cottage cheese or yogurt carton or clean cup or something to dip the water out of the tank for testing. Throw the water and anything in the test tube down the drain when you are done. I am sure you know that, but I always say it.

There are two kinds of ammonia test kits. If you use Amquel or Prime other products that reduce ammonia or ammonia toxicity, you have to buy a special kit. Ask at the LFS, I am sick and can't recall which is which.

Feel free to email me off list if you get too concerned about your fish.

troi

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 19 Dec 2004, 07:00

thank you!

no, i didnt know about not putting the tube in the tank water

i did test the water and the result was that both nitrate and nitrite (sp?) were high, so i did a 50% water change, and added an amonia & chlorine remover. but afterwards i kept thinking whether it was even more stressfull for him, i mean, to do the water change.

he hasnt moved much all day today. i thought he would like to hang out with his buddies, but on the contrary, he seems to avoid them. also, his spiny dorsal fin doesnt look like his buddies'. it doesnt "stay up". does it mean anything?

im too worried. im afraid i'll wake up next morning and will see his body floating...

Untitled · Post by **Untitled** » 19 Dec 2004, 09:24

If your ammonia and nitrite levels are high then it is more stressful for the fish if you don't do anything about it. As Troi suggested, using AmQuel Plus or Prime will detoxify the ammonia and nitrites and make them safe for the fish until they are consumed by the bacteria. If you use either of this, then you have to use an ammonia test kit that uses Salicylate reagents and not Nessler reagents. I know that API's ammonia test kit for 130 tests is good (while the 75 tests kit is not). I am not sure about others.

I would add the AmQuel Plus/Prime and keep on doing smaller water changes until you see an improvement if I were you.

And as for the fin growing back or not... I have a goldfish in an outside pond and one day we noticed that he was bleeding. We took him out to see what it was and the lower half of his fin was missing to the base of the fin and that the area was bleeding. I moved the fish to a hospital tank and treated with Melafix and although I thought this case was too bad for the fin to grow back, it did. So I still think your fish will get his tail back, if you keep things right for him. Melafix, by the way, is made from tea-tree oil.

troi · Post by **troi** » 19 Dec 2004, 16:43

chrisinha wrote: afterwards i kept thinking whether it was even more stressfull for him... to do the water change.
...his spiny dorsal fin ...doesnt "stay up". does it mean anything?...im afraid i'll wake up next morning and will see his body floating...

Water changes are stressful, esp the big ones. However, you do need to keep changing water till hte tank straightens out. Smaller changes, 15-20% are less apt to cause a hardness and ph shock problem. If you are using detoxifiers, maybe 20% change every other day.

But DO get the Salicate test and use it daily till you get 0 ppm ammonia for week. Should take four to six weeks. I have found that AmmoLock does not seem to allow the tank to cycle properly, so best stick wiht Amquel or Amquel plus.

The dorsal fin "down" or at half mast means either the fish is unhappy or doesn't feel the overhead clearance to extend it. Expect this fish to be unhappy for a while. Be gentle with the water changes, keep the tank and filter clean (do NOT clean any filter media in tap water, just rinse it in tank water, in a bucket or juice jug, etc., till everything is stable. IF you have deep sand/gravel, you can rinse the media in tap water when all has been balanced for awhile), use the melafix as directed. Make sure the fish has enough air whereever he is hiding and that the gunk under his hidey hole gets cleaned out.

Check this fish for white tufty stuff near his damaged tail. Let us know at the first sign of spreading red areas or white stuff of any sort at the injury site.

Welcome to intensive fishkeeping! You'll love it or hate it. I hope you will love it; I like the care and attention you are showing one poor little corydoras.

troi

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 19 Dec 2004, 21:11

thank you guys for helping me!

i woke up this morning and thank god he's still alive. his dorsal fin looks less "flat". i actually checked him during the night (i think it was around 4 am) and he seemed to be more active. now he's been "resting" for quite some time, but the other corys arent moving that much either.

ok... i was looking online at the main pet stores websites here ( http://www.petsmart.com and http://www.petco.com ) but i couldnt find the test you are suggesting. the one that uses Salicate (or Salicylate - im guessing you're talking about the same thing here?). Do you know what the manufacterer is?

i'd like to show you what i use in my tanks for amonia/chlorine. the first one i use in my turtle tank:

these were the ones i used for the fish tank. should i use the other one instead?

i havent noticed any white/red spots on his injured fin. yesterday i thought his whole coloration was a little weird, but today he looks fine.
thanks once again for your help! i wouldnt know what to do if it werent for you guys!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 20 Dec 2004, 04:22

ok, it's 8:20 pm my time now and 2 of my corys keep swimming up and down. is it normal?

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 20 Dec 2004, 04:43

Untitled wrote: I know that API's ammonia test kit for 130 tests is good (while the 75 tests kit is not). I am not sure about others.

is this the one you're talking about?

http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?s ... pt_id=%2D2

Untitled · Post by **Untitled** » 20 Dec 2004, 08:59

Hello again,

AmQuel Plus is an excellent product in my opinion. You can use it in your fish tank as well to detoxify ammonia and nitrites in case of emergency. For water changes you can still use StressZyme and StressCoat. The ammonia test kit in the link you provided is the one. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (API) make two ammonia test kits, one with only one bottle and enough for 75 tests -- which is not good for anyone using AmQuel, or the two bottles test kit which is enough for 130 tests, which is the right one.

As your nitrite test results were high, it is very likely that your ammonia is high as well. This will why your fish's fins are not erected and why they are swimming up and down all the time. As you haven't tested for ammonia yet, you will have to calculate the dose by your nitrite levels. A dose of 5ml for every 10 gallons will detoxify 2ppm of nitrites. If you had 2ppm of nitrites or less, give one full dose. If you have more, than you have to multiply it (7.5ml/10 gallons if you have 3ppm, for instance). It would be a good idea to change some of the water before you use the AmQuel, but not more than 20% (unless your nitrites levels were so high they went off the chart). Please be aware that AmQuel reduces oxygen levels in the water so if you don't have an airstone, this is the time to get one (your other fish might still gasp at the surface for a while and the cories might dart up to the surface to breathe). I also like to add activated carbon to the water several hours after using AmQuel as not all the substance is being used up to detoxify ammonia and nitrites and the carbon filters the left overs from the water (making it easier for the fish to breathe again).
On subsequent days only use AmQuel if your ammonia/nitrites levels are going up. If they stay the same or go down then you don't need to add anymore as the amount in the water was already detoxified by the first dose. A 10% - 20% water change daily will be appreciated by the fish until the ammonia and nitrites levels are 0.

Treating for ammonia and nitrites will ease the stress of your fish and he will be able to heal more quickly. If your tank was cycled before you add the new fish, it will probably only be a matter of one week until your ammonia/nitrites levels are back at 0.

As for the cories being more active at night, there's nothing to worry about it. Cories usually rest during the day (unless it's feeding time) and come out to play at night.

Keep us posted about how things are going!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 20 Dec 2004, 19:25

ok, i did a 20% water change this morning and added 1 tsp of AmQuelPlus + Melafix. I do have an air pump, but i still have one question: when you say water change, are you talking about just changing part of the water, or cleaning/vaccuming the gravel? i need to buy one of those vaccums with battery, because the one i have is manual and i always spill water all over the place

the nitrate/nitrite levels have dropped, but are still high. im going to buy the amonia kit you guys suggested. i'll keep you posted!

i couldnt understand very well what you said about activated carbon (sometimes my english sucks!

), but i'll tell my boyfriend about it. im sure he will know what you're talking about!

thanks a lot!

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 21 Dec 2004, 00:23

is this the activated carbon?

http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?s ... pt_id=%2D2

my filter is this whisper 10,

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_ ... 3588758313

i know, not a very good one, but can i put the activated carbon in it?

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 21 Dec 2004, 05:38

i just tested the water for ammonia and the results came out (according to that test kit you suggested - API 130 tests) 2.0 ppm.

this is what i've got:

AmQuel plus
Stress Zyme + Stress Coat
Jungle Ammonia Clear Tank Buddies (efervescent tablets)

and the AMMO-CARB activated carbon and Ammonia-Removing Resin (i posted a link to this one on my previous message)

as i said before i have a Tetra Whisper 10. I just bought a filter refill, it says it is an "ultra-activated carbon".

what should i do now? sorry to bother you guys!

@troi: i hope you're feeling better!

troi · Post by **troi** » 21 Dec 2004, 07:07

chrisinha wrote: 2.0 ppm...

this is what i've got:

AmQuel plus

and the AMMO-CARB activated carbon and Ammonia-Removing Resin
as i said before i have a Tetra Whisper 10. I just bought a filter refill, it says it is an "ultra-activated carbon".

what should i do now? sorry to bother you guys! :oops:

@troi: i hope you're feeling better!

Stop feeding for a few days. Then feed lightly, less than half what you usually feed every other day. The food makes the ammonia higher. Fasting might make the fish a bit hungry but won't hurt them for a few days.

Use the ammonia removing resin in the filter. You can put it in a filter media bag or boil the foot part of an old stocking (nylon hose, like panty hose) until no more color boils out (I change the water a few times when I boil it) and put the resin in that. It need to go in the water stream so it has to go in the filter. As I recall, the whisper has a bit of room for optional stuff in the box.

Use the Amquell plus as directed on the bottle. I don't use carbon, but if you have room in the filter for your media, the resin and the ammocarb, use it. Change part of the water right away, maybe 20 percent. Then, as untitled said, change 10% a day.

2.0 ppm is pretty high. If you have an established filter in the turtle tank, can you take part of the media out of that filter and put it in the cory/guppy/ plec tank? Any gravel yo can borrow from that tank may help as well.

troi

chrisinha · Post by **chrisinha** » 21 Dec 2004, 07:18

troi,

i hope you're still around.
im sorry, i dont know what "media" is (is it the bag with the carbon?), but i tested the turtle's tank for ammonia too and it is also high. the turtle tank has a fluval 304 filter, so it's totally different.

back to the fish tank:
should i replace the actual bag of carbon? it's pretty nasty! should i do the 20% water change tonight? Should i also vaccum the gravel and try to get rid of the waste and leftovers?

troi · Post by **troi** » 21 Dec 2004, 07:23

chrisinha wrote:i just tested the water for ammonia and the results came out 2.0 ppm.

troi: i hope you're feeling better!

Thanks. I am having a cory crisis off site so I am not resting as much as I should. Still crummy feeling.

You know what I do when I get myself into the situation you are in? I take water from an established tank, (assuming I know it is not carrying some disease or parasite and that it is fairly close in ph and temp) and some media from a filter in an established tank, plus rocks, driftwood or anything bacteria migh be growing on, and put that in the new tank.

Instant cycled tank! As much old water as the old tank can spare and top off wiht new, treated water. I still monitor ammonia daily for a week. Sometimes I get an ammonia spike that lasts a few days, sometimes it just doen't work but often the new tank is cycled right away.

If you can steal water and media from the turtle tank without stressing the turtle tank, do it. Don't take more than 20-25 per cent of the turtle water. Don't leave the turtle tank with too little media if it does not have a good bed of gravel or lotsa rocks and so forth to make up for the filter media loss. What kind of filter is on the turtle tank and how long has it been up?

troi