Raising bristlenose pleco fries successfully...

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 23 Aug 2004, 06:58

I will have my 3rd batch anyday now as the male has been guarding them for almost 2 weeks so far...

I've completely lost the first two batches.

- 1st batch were left in the original tank, and eventually all died except one.

- 2nd batch were placed in an established 5.5g tank where platies used occupy. They were taken out just before adding the fries into this tank. Lost all of them as well.

This time, I am planning to setup another 5.5g tank with daily water change. I have an option of choosing either AquaClear Mini or a sponge filter - which is better for this purpose? Do the fries need much water current?

Appreciate any help...

Post by **Barbie** » 23 Aug 2004, 07:30

I would personally set up a larger tank for growing them out. Keeping 5.5 gallons stable and keeping enough food in there for the fry to get enough to eat would be a very fine balancing act, IMO. I've had great luck with groups in tanks as small as 20 gallons, even with multiple spawns,as long as I kept up on my water changes. I definitely wouldn't consider attempting growing them out in even a 10. That's just been my experience with them though, maybe someone else will have better ideas

Barbie

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 23 Aug 2004, 07:43

Aha....

I was hoping to keep them until they reach 2cm or so, then move them to a larger tank - is this a bad idea? Smaller tank makes it easier for me to do water changes frequently, but if this is going to be a problem, I would definitely get a larger tank for this purpose.

Regardless, which type of filter is better for them - a sponge filter or a power filter?

Thanks again...

pleco_farmer · Post by **pleco_farmer** » 23 Aug 2004, 13:45

We get great results with rigid mesh breeding traps hanging in the original tank. In cases where there are hungry fish in the main tank, a filter bag loosely fitted around the trap keeps them from sucking out the fry. (Finding half of a spawn, half-eaten one day taught us this lesson!) Since we strip eggs and hatch artificially, getting the fry in the trap is not an issue, they simply hatch there. However, if you let the male hatch the spawn, it is easy to wait until yolk sacs are gone, then place entire cave in the trap, tilted down at an angle. The male will eventually swim out. If you leave the water level in the tank an inch or two low, he usually finds his way out of the trap on his own, jumping over the side.

Upside to this process is that you get a good count on the number of fry that hatched, and you can monitor their growth more accurately. Also, the fry are concentrated around the food source, since they are fed separately. After the fry have reached an inch or so, we move them to rearing tanks for further growth. Again, this is easy since the entire trap is lifted and the fry move all at once.

Search the forum, there are many threads describing artifical hatching, and other methods to improve yield. You will also want to search for threads about driftwood and snails, which are also important for fry.

hazard · Post by **hazard** » 24 Aug 2004, 02:03

Hey Pleco Queen(Barbie)

I noticed that one of my males was sitting on eggs in a 75g so I removed all of the fish besides plecos. The fry came out of the cave a week later. With in a few days the bellies started to swell up and they started dying. I have been feeding them plecos Aquadine flake and zuccini. I use aged water and change around 15% once a week.

Any helpful hints. This is the way I was losing all of the fry in the past. I have tried many combinations with bristlenose but I still kill the fry. What would cause the bellies to swell up?

Post by **Barbie** » 24 Aug 2004, 02:33

Queen *snort* I wish!

I was having that problem with my QA fry when the dissolved oxygen levels was getting too low in their hatching container. What are you using for filtration and circulation? I've found you really can't overfilter the water, and the fry can stand a pretty heavy flow rate for their size, with no problem, but even a day of a clogged sponge filter can make them seriously stressed. What are your other readings? I do up to 75% water changes on my growout tanks full of ancistrus, so I don't know that worrying about aging the water and all that would be necessary, unless you incoming tap water is very low in oxygen or something. Iknow, not much help, but give me all your readings and maybe I can spot something? I'm assuming the water in the tank was hard to keep your afriggin sicklids happy? ;)

Barbie

hazard · Post by **hazard** » 24 Aug 2004, 04:19

That might be the problem. I had my best luck with the 10g with a whisper 60 pushing 300gph. The 75g has a whisper 60 and a sponge filter with a aquaclear 301 powerhead on top. I will have to add a few more box filters or sponge filters to the tank. I will let you know how the next spawn turns out.

Thanks
Chris

davidkozak · Post by **davidkozak** » 24 Aug 2004, 16:23

I don't think you're changing enough water....I was changing water every day(starting at 10-20% while they were still eggs, and ramping up to 50% or more after they started eating) maybe too much, but I didn't more than a handful of fry...and there was over 200 of them..
david
p.s. aging the water is good if you've got chlorine in it-as is heating it to a temp similar to the fry tank..

pleco_farmer · Post by **pleco_farmer** » 25 Aug 2004, 13:59

Second the water change advice. Keep in mind that even if the filtration is excellent, you are still leaving the nitrates behind which are removed by water changes.

Might I also suggest adding some driftwood, if it isn't there already. A stick of soft Malaysian driftwood will get worked over pretty well by a good batch of ancistrus fry. Pesticides, or wax, on the zuchinni might also be the culprit. I switched to organic veggies and overall survival jumped significantly. (Plus, it keeps the home grown zuchinni away from the dinner table.)

Manix · Post by **Manix** » 25 Aug 2004, 17:35

pl*co_farmer wrote: Search the forum, there are many threads describing artifical hatching, and other methods to improve yield. You will also want to search for threads about driftwood and snails, which are also important for fry.

How are snails benificial too BN fry? I could not find anything using the search option.

pleco_farmer · Post by **pleco_farmer** » 26 Aug 2004, 17:00

We have been raising ancistrus commercially for some time, and are constantly experimenting with grow out conditions. Our optimal recipe includes: Malaysian driftwood, frozen collard greens, hikari wafers every other day, 78-82F temp, daily 20% water change, phosphate buffer to pH of 7, GH/KH of 3-5, and snails. We know them as pond snails, they are brown, ovate and grow to just over 1cm. They leave healthy eggs alone, and add to the overall biological health of the tank. It is also thought that they provide a good source of protozoans.

We maintained a spawn split between two tanks, one with all of the above, and one where the snails were religiously removed, and found a noticeable increase in both the survival rate and the growth rate of the fry with the snails. (With the water changes, conditions were chemically similar, no noticeable differences in nitrates, pH, etc...) After six weeks, the smaller group had still not caught up. At that point they were placed into rearing tanks, so we can draw no further conclusions. This experiment was repeated with a second batch from different parents, giving similar results.

Some of the old hands here may have better explanations, but we just know it works, so we stick with it.

Manix · Post by **Manix** » 26 Aug 2004, 19:09

Thanks pleco_farmer.

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 11 Sep 2004, 06:19

Do they actually need the wood in their diet? I get conflicting stories depending on who I talk to...

I've been raising the fries now for about 2 weeks. I've been doing pretty much daily water changes (no choice as they make such a mess out of zuchini slices). They are still in the 5.5g tank, driven by Aqua Clear Mini, and reduced rate. (They were flying all over the place when I set it at full).

Since I started this setup, I lost zero fries so far, and there are currently 31 of them in there...

Is there anything I should watch out for in the near future? I'm getting another tank ready as I suspect I will run out of growing space soon...

pleco_farmer · Post by **pleco_farmer** » 11 Sep 2004, 15:42

Most definitely. I was getting significant die offs between two and three weeks without it. Seems to supply the digestive tract with a necessary ingredient as they mature. Overall growth rates improved as well. This may vary with individuals, but all of the different ancistrus that I have raised have benefited from it.

Its tough growing up in a little tank instead of a huge river, try to supply them with what they find in the wild.

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 11 Sep 2004, 18:00

Hmm... So I should get some more wood for these guys, then! I figure they are around 3 weeks old since its been two weeks since the male has releaesd them. So far, as I mentioned, zero losses, so I was leaning towards the arguement of not needing any wood in their diet....

I guess better safe than sorry...

Allen Myers · Post by **Allen Myers** » 12 Sep 2004, 01:52

Hello all. I'm on my second successful batch of albino bristlenose babies without a casualty. I am used to raising angels, so changing 25% to 50% of the bn tank water was not a hassle. I think wood plays an important role however. Take a look at the attached picture of a bunch of 3 week old bn babies on a slice of zucchini. There are a few also on the driftwood. The excrement on the tank bottom is dark brown, so I am positive they are eating and digesting wood daily.

hth

Allen

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 12 Sep 2004, 04:17

Thanks for the info - that really says they do consume wood. My fries are about 3 weeks old, and their poo are pure green - result of eating only zuchini...

I'll get some wood right away!

davidkozak · Post by **davidkozak** » 12 Sep 2004, 20:43

great picture Allan...

tjudy · Post by **tjudy** » 14 Sep 2004, 06:10

I have a question about the use of snails:

and snails. We know them as pond snails, they are brown, ovate and grow to just over 1cm.

Has anyone else experienced this? Do you think that red ramshorm snails would work as well?

I have a couple pairs of ancistrus where I am using an albino male and a heterozygous female. I am having better success with the albinos... maybe this outcross increases overall health. I too use a lot of wood. I feed bbs daily as well as a blend of flake and sinking pellet foods.

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 17 Sep 2004, 06:11

It's been 21 days since the male has released the fries (i.e. the fries are probably about 1 month old). I did NOT add any wood and so far, all 48 fries are alive! I fed only zuchini and cucumber - I didn't realize that they can eat hatched brine shrimps (do they???)

I am begining to wonder if they need any wood at all in their diet - the largest ones are now over 1 inch so obviously, lack of wood is not stunting their growth either...

Interesting...

Allen Myers · Post by **Allen Myers** » 17 Sep 2004, 12:32

yhbae,

Congratulations! It looks like things are finally working right for you and your bristlenose. Water quality is probably the critical element for success. Keeping food in front of the bn babies while maintaining water quality is a balancing act. However, I believe wood is essential at some point in a bristlenose pl*co's life. I have read here and other places that it may be beneficial for their digestion system. After all, why do they eat wood when it's in their tank? Guppies and angles don't eat wood

I feed bbs everyday to 6 week and under bn babies. Although they may not be able to catch the swimming shrimp, within 12 hours the shrimp's life comes to an end in freshwater. The shrimp become weak and settle to the bottom of the tank, right where your bn's like to hang out

Protein in the bn fry diet is very important to improve overall size, strength, and vigor.

HTH

Allen

tjudy · Post by **tjudy** » 17 Sep 2004, 20:32

I watch mine baby bn catch bbs. They do not chase them out in the water column, but when a nauplii gets close they will tilt up and get it.

Anyone else have the experience with the snails?

Allen Myers · Post by **Allen Myers** » 18 Sep 2004, 16:57

tjudy,

Regarding snails, specifically ramshorn, I have always found them as a valuable addition to any tank that is being used to rear fry and juvenile fish. I used them in every angelfish pair and juvie tank for several years. They really are somewhat of a safety buffer when you may have slightly overfed or when you have a potential problem in a tank (ie: excessive ammonia, nitrites, nitrates,etc.) as they typically show signs of stress (or death) sooner than your fish will. They are also quite prolific and their eggs are a great source of food for most fish

They really don't move fast enough or grow large enough to be any type of a threat to angelfish or bristlenose eggs.

HTH

Allen

yhbae · Post by **yhbae** » 19 Sep 2004, 03:57

Alright - I'll give hatched brine shrimps a shot starting tonight!

Thanks for the feedback!

tjudy · Post by **tjudy** » 19 Sep 2004, 22:53

Thanks Allan... I will innoculate the fry tanks with ramshorns. I keep a tank of snails for science experiments (I teach), so I have plenty.