L27 Xingu Panaque nigrolineatus or L190 or what? (pics incl)

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 03 Apr 2004, 15:45

OK Guys!

Im a newbie here and you have to be nice and also have patient with my poor english BUT, we can do it in swedish if you pleace

Me and my friend just bought a Royal pleco. In the stoore it was taged "L27 Xingu Panaque (cf.) nigrolineatus" but we are not shure... Can you help us

Here is ine of the beauties...

This is near the reality in colours. Taken with flash and adjuested in photoshop...

This pic is taken without a flash and its more yellow in this pic then in reality...

So, what do you say?

Kind Rgds!

lisa23 · Post by **lisa23** » 03 Apr 2004, 16:48

Hi
It looks to be closer to L190 rather than L027.

Not sure though

Cheers
Lisa

Post by **Janne** » 03 Apr 2004, 17:35

Or as I said earlier in an other forum, a very young L-330 but there is always interesting to hear if there are others that think the same.

Janne

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 03 Apr 2004, 18:15

Janne and Lisa, in my opinion you are both right, because when L190 was "described" for the first time it was a very small specimen, and nobody could really say, if a L330 will come out of it or just a regular P.nigrolineatus. Later some people said, that L190 stands for the striped form (=P.nigrolineatus) and L330 for the dotted form from Rio Guejar. But in a baby fish they look the same. Ricard, your fish already dissolve the stripes into dots, so probably an L330 will turn out when it grows a little more.

Erwin

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 03 Apr 2004, 22:15

Erwin wrote:Janne and Lisa, in my opinion you are both right, because when L190 was "described" for the first time it was a very small specimen, and nobody could really say, if a L330 will come out of it or just a regular P.nigrolineatus. Later some people said, that L190 stands for the striped form (=P.nigrolineatus) and L330 for the dotted form from Rio Guejar. But in a baby fish they look the same. Ricard, your fish already dissolve the stripes into dots, so probably an L330 will turn out when it grows a little more.

Erwin

Hi Erwin, Jannemannen (swedish witch means Janne the man ) and Lisa...

If this will become a L330, what does it mean? Is it the smaler one or the big guy? Where do I find good information about this two choises..?

Kind rgds and a big thanx for your help!

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 04 Apr 2004, 07:37

One choice is the new DATZ L-Numbers Special (see information on very top of this side), the other is the new aqualog all L-numbers, some discussion can be found here: http://www.forum.planetcatfish.com/view ... ght=#32175

Both forms will reach the same size, and thats a big one (>40 cm!).

Erwin

Post by **Janne** » 04 Apr 2004, 10:22

Erwin,

In the new aqualog it says that L190 would reach more then 30 cm and L330 between 25-30 cm SL I suppose, in Datz L-numbers special they reach more then 40 cm.
I personally have not seen either of these species over 25-30 cm but that does'nt meens that they not can be bigger, so the question is if you have experience of bigger species of these two mentioned above and if you know how long time it takes to reach a size over 40 cm in nature (the age of such big species).

Janne

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 04 Apr 2004, 10:44

Erwin wrote:One choice is the new DATZ L-Numbers Special (see information on very top of this side), the other is the new aqualog all L-numbers, some discussion can be found here: http://www.forum.planetcatfish.com/view ... ght=#32175

Both forms will reach the same size, and thats a big one (>40 cm!).

Erwin

Hi Erwin...

Thanks for that link. I tryed it and found out you to be Mr. Catfish of the world. Respect!

Seriously, Im verry honoured to have this oportunity to ask one of thebest about L-numbers AND I WILL buy your exelent book...

Maybe you can explain this for me...

I have asked a local dealer here in Sweden about a beauti that I found on the web on this site:
http://www.transfish.de/LCode/L142.jpg
- they call it L142 - do you know if that's correct?

My local dealer want me to buy this fish:
http://www.aleds-akvarium.se/fiskbilder ... a29a_3.jpg
The dealer call this Loricariidae spec L29a or a snow ball pleco - is that the name of hes fish?

Now, THE Question

: is the fish I want (L142?) the same as the dealers sugestion (L29a?)

Kind regards from the north...

(when I buy The book [sounds like I refere to the bible, and maybe it will become for thouse who LOVE L-numbers...] will it include stickers that will be published later on or do I have to subscript?)

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 04 Apr 2004, 16:04

Hi!

L142 is correctly labelled on the Transfish website: it belong to the genus Baryancistrus

L29 is and is a different fish than LDA29 which is a Panaque species.
However the fish pictured there from the shop rather show a species of Scobinancitrus, probably L368...
Cheers
Yann

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 04 Apr 2004, 17:26

Hi Janne,

If we consider L190 to be Panaque nigrolineatus, then this species reaches according to FishBase 43 cm SL. I also have not seen L330 in a bigger size as 25-30 cm SL. Maybe we (Frank SchÃ¤fer and me) were wrong to believe that it can't grow bigger, and maybe Werner is right, that it also reaches 40 cm and more. I think I can believe it and noted already to change that in the next issue of the book. I think for an aquarium fish it needs not only the time to reach these huge sizes, it also need the space. I have for instance a Glypt. gibbiceps which has passed now the 30 cm, but I'm sure it wouldn't become that big if I wouldn't house it in a 300 cm long fishtank.
I can't say how long it will take for catfishes to reach large sizes. And I think it depends on the species as well. I had a baby Synodontis nigromaculatus that grew in only one year from about 5 cm up to 25 cm, while my S. dhonti made in the same time only up to 12 cm, and they are both in the same aquarium. I don't have experience with large Panaque, maybe someone else on the list?

Erwin

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 04 Apr 2004, 17:42

Hi Ricard,

Yes, the first fish is a baby L142 (=LDA33), a Baryancistrus sp. which will reduce the size of the white dots during growth.

The second fish is not a L29. As Yann said is the fish behind this L-number a Leporacanthicus galaxias. But I don't think the fish on the picture shows this or as Yann guessed a Scobinancistrus. I have seen a large dotted variant of a L201 which looked almost the same. The only thing what is different is the colour of the caudal. Such a darker lower lope is more common in L136, another Hypancistrus species, which is also known in different variants. You should buy it, because it probably keeps the large white dots, because these Hypancistus species don't get so big (only about 7 - 9 cm).

The name "Snowball Pleco" was originally used for L103, another Hypancistrus with bigger dots, but I don't think it this species.

Erwin

kgroenhoej · Post by **kgroenhoej** » 04 Apr 2004, 21:23

Hi Richard,

Just to clarify: When Erwin wrote L103 I'm sure he meant L102

My local dealer want me to buy this fish:
http://www.aleds-akvarium.se/fiskbilder ... a29a_3.jpg
The dealer call this Loricariidae spec L29a or a snow ball pl*co - is that the name of hes fish?

The pictured fish is not L29 or LDA29 (the name of the pic). I'm guessing it's a Scobinancistrus of some kind. My guess is based on the look of it's "face". It can be difficult to see the difference of juvenile Scobinancistrus and Hypancistrus on pictures, but the size of the "nostrils" and something with the eye, that I can't put my finger on, make me think it's a Scobinancistrus.

Regards
Klaus

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 04 Apr 2004, 21:24

Hi

Actually it was L102 an Hypancistrus sp from the Rio Negro which was given first the name of "Snow Ball".
You can find a great article on the breeding of that species in the article section of ICOSA...

Cheers
Yann

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 05 Apr 2004, 01:59

Erwin wrote:Hi Ricard,

Yes, the first fish is a baby L142 (=LDA33), a Baryancistrus sp. which will reduce the size of the white dots during growth.

The second fish is not a L29. As Yann said is the fish behind this L-number a Leporacanthicus galaxias. But I don't think the fish on the picture shows this or as Yann guessed a Scobinancistrus. I have seen a large dotted variant of a L201 which looked almost the same. The only thing what is different is the colour of the caudal. Such a darker lower lope is more common in L136, another Hypancistrus species, which is also known in different variants. You should buy it, because it probably keeps the large white dots, because these Hypancistus species don't get so big (only about 7 - 9 cm).

The name "Snowball pl*co" was originally used for L103, another Hypancistrus with bigger dots, but I don't think it this species.

Erwin

Hi, Erwin and everyone!

Now, the dealer have chage

He just mailed me a new picture that he says is LDA33 and it looks like this:

Erwin, you just told me to buy because the dots dont get smaler as they grow AND that they dont get so big, but this one, LDA33 with is the same as L142, is that not equal? When I first saw this type - black with white dots - I was stucked... But of course I want as much white as possible to increase the contrast.... Buy the way, the tag is 380SEK (Euro 40,41 and USD49,76) - is that ok? And what do w know about LDA33 (L142) Is it big, grow fast, agressive etc..?

Today I have got my Tapajo Red Head (0.0.10). The father (wc) look like this:

so I hope you understand why my regards are verry happy and kind!

Ich bin sehr froh und dankbar, den Sie Ihrer kostbaren Zeit, Fragen dieses AnfÃ¤ngers zu beantworten geben - danke! (und dieses ist deutsche WÃ¶rter durch Babel Fische:-) mÃ¶glich)

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 05 Apr 2004, 06:45

Hi!

Yes the fish look like a L142/LDA33 Baryancistrus sp

40 € is a rather good price depending of the size. but for a ~10 cm that must be ok...
Cheers
Yann

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 05 Apr 2004, 10:06

Eieiei, I wish I could say it was a typing error Klaus, but you are right, L102 is the number of the fish which was in my mind.

But I can't agree with your opinion that it is a Scobinancistrus. I think it is about the same variety which is shown in the new Aqualog on p.149, 2nd row. There we called it an L201, and if you look at the other varieties of this species, you can see how much this species can differ in color, and in size and number of its dots.

About the L142/L248/LDA33: we believe that this species can grow at least up to 25 cm. Personally I've not seen such large specimens, I only know them from photographs. It is a species which will reduce the size of its dots during growth, so it will lose its attractive contrasting coloration quite a bit. From the little experience which I have with smaller individuals of Baryancistrus, I can't tell that Baryancistrus are very aggressive. But this might change when they get big.

I never can say anything about the price of a fish. It depends on how much a fish is worth to you. For instance, I would pay quite an amount for some grey fish, if it would be just that species which I am looking for.

Best Wishes

Erwin

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 10 Apr 2004, 00:03

Erwin wrote:...it is a species which will reduce the size of its dots during growth, so it will lose its attractive contrasting coloration quite a bit. From the little experience which I have with smaller individuals of Baryancistrus, I can't tell that Baryancistrus are very aggressive. But this might change when they get big.

Erwin

Hi Erwin and again, thnks for support...

If I want a one that NOT will have smaller dots but keep them large and give them there spectaculary look, lifelong, what am I suposed to look for? Any sugestions?

Ricard

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 10 Apr 2004, 00:29

Well Ricard, you could try to get that variant of L201 with large dots which I believe is shown on your picture:

http://www.aleds-akvarium.se/fiskbilder ... a29a_3.jpg

The other choice would be L102 or L82. They both have pretty big dots, at least bigger than in adult Baryancistrus.

Erwin

Wood · Post by **Wood** » 10 Apr 2004, 00:35

Iown aLda33,he is 7inches long and gorgeous. He is about4yearsold. I just purchased but they are only 2inches long. I am afraid to put them together because of the size difference. Any ideas.

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 23 Apr 2004, 10:48

Erwin wrote:Well Ricard, you could try to get that variant of L201 with large dots which I believe is shown on your picture:

http://www.aleds-akvarium.se/fiskbilder ... a29a_3.jpg

The other choice would be L102 or L82. They both have pretty big dots, at least bigger than in adult Baryancistrus.

Erwin

Hi Erwin!

Last saturday I etend "Guardians of Catfish" meeting. (it's a Scandinavian ass.)
Now, I bought a bunch of L's and Corydoras to my empty 720-tank... I have a questnion about one of my new... Its about the TSN - is it a Sorubim lima, a Morodontotus tigrinus, a Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum or maybe a Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum

I ad a pic so you can see. The fish is around 14-15cm (6-7inch)... What do you think?

10st. C. delphax breed in Sweden.(bis)
6st C. melini (bis)
2st.L-18
1st.L-27
1st. L-102
3st. L-114
7st. L-270 (aprox 3cm. - verry qute!)
3st. Rineloricaria fallax
2st. Rineloricaria parva
3st. Shovel nose

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 23 Apr 2004, 22:36

Hi Ricard,

I think the fish on the picture show the juvenile coloration of Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum. Juveniles of Pseudoplatystoma corruscans are similar, but the white stripe doesn't reach into the head in them, also their head is more flattened.

I hope this helps.

Best Wishes

Erwin

Ricard · Post by **Ricard** » 24 Apr 2004, 07:23

Erwin wrote:Hi Ricard,

I think the fish on the picture show the juvenile coloration of Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum. Juveniles of Pseudoplatystoma corruscans are similar, but the white stripe doesn't reach into the head in them, also their head is more flattened.

I hope this helps.

Best Wishes

Erwin

Hi Erwin,

it helps a lot. My local dealer think it is Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum but ou don't agree? Can you explain to me, the differents between this two..? It would realy help me out. The reason why this is important for us is that I bought this 3 tsn on a n show with the stores new 3200l-tank in mind. And I guess that when it comes to money (what the dealer have eto pay me to get this 3 ones) it's not the same price tag in Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum and in Pseudoplatystoma tigrinum

So, do you know any way to separete this to spieces? (P. fasciatum & P. tigrinum)

Thanks for your support - it's worh a million!

Erwin · Post by **Erwin** » 25 Apr 2004, 10:32

Ricard,

I need to say that this is a group of fish where my knowledge is based on aquaristic informations. I daught it is P. tigrinum because in the Cat-eLog is a picture of a specimen which looks almost the same as the fish on your picture. But scratching the surface of aquaristic informations, it looks like that some authors have different opinions. For instance does Kai Arendt ("GroÃ?welse RÃ¤uber vom Amazonas", Aquaristik Fachmagazin, 155 (2000): 2-11) display your fish as Pseudoplatystoma corruscans. There exists an article about the biology of P. fasciatum and P. tigrinum in French: Loubens, G. & Panfili, J. (2000): Biologie de Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum et P. tigrinum (...) dans le basin du MamorÃ© (Amazonie Bolivienne). Ichthyol. Explor. Freshwaters, 11 (1): 13-43.
There are photographs included (acord. to my database) but I don't hold this articel in my collection, so you had to try to get it from another source.

Sorry that I am not a big help.

Best Wishes

Erwin