Breeding advice for King Tiger

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 14 Feb 2004, 17:55

Ok, i've had another attempt at cave-building today! The caves are for my King Tiger Plecs's. I went down to the LFS today and wayhay, they've had a new shipment in from South America, including 6 full grown King Tiger's,

with one big 4.5"-5", very impressive male, which I have reserved and am going to pick up on Tuesday

. They were priced at Â£25 wich I think is very reasonable for these guys. That brings my group up to 3, with one definate male, and one definate female

. Anyway, back to the caves. The one I have built is 2.5" wide, 2"high and 6.5"long made out of tile. Will this one be a good size for an adult male King Tiger? I hope so! One other Q., will an adult pair of male L066 fight? Barbie, this is just a pure guess, but is it possible that your smaller fishes yolk sac is not feeding him/her properly? As stated this is a guess but may be possible

Cheers

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 15 Feb 2004, 22:39

hi barbe, sorry to hijack your post but I am picking up some new King Tiger L066's on Tuesday and would just like your opinion/advice

At the moment I have two, which I think are males, one definately is. As LFS has got new batch in, I am going to swap one of these for a female and also pick up one other female at the same time. My question: there is a very obvious male there, very impressive, which I would love to buy but I already have one

Therefore, would I be able to put 2 males and 2 females in my 18gal. 30" tank or would the 2 males fight?
Cheers,

Post by **Barbie** » 15 Feb 2004, 22:56

Well the little stunted guy didn't make it. I didn't think he would, but its still a bummer. The others all look great, still planning to swipe them from dad tonight, then move them into a larger tank, still contained in their box in a few days so I can get dad in shape to start over.

You can keep two males in the same tank, but only one will spawn with the females from what I've been told, so it would be a waste, IMO. They will fight some, but usually not once they establish dominance. It would be a better idea to get a 3rd female, IMO.

Barbie

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 16 Feb 2004, 09:36

Cheers Barbie,
I would get 3 females but unfortunately there are only 2m and 2f

left at LFS. I think I'll pick up both the females and one of the males. I will soon have a 48" spare, so I will set up one pair in each, then look out for more females! Do you think these four fish will be OK together until the summer?
Cheers

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 16 Feb 2004, 17:54

Hello All,

I need to make a correction. I'm not sure if I mis-typed or Barbie did, but the proper dimensions for a cave are 1.5 times the width, same height, and 2 times as long as the males body not including fins.

Hippyguy, L66 seems to be one of the exceptions to the rule. Two pair will spawn in the same tank if it is large enough. I know that a 55 gallon is big enough, but am unsure how much smaller they will still cohabit.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 16 Feb 2004, 19:07

Cheers Larry,
My tank is only 18gal's so I am assuming both pairs are unlikely to breed at the same time. The male which I currently have is not mature, so the one I am planning on getting is likely to be 'boss'

If necessary, I can set up the 48" tank for one pair and leave the other pair in the 30". This would not be until the summer though. Do you think that the two males will be OK together anyway? I know that they grow up to 14cm, and as the one I have is about 2-3cm smaller than the one I am getting, I don't want him to get hurt

I have various caves in the tank, four which I have made for breeding purposes. Larry, have you actually bred L066, if so what were the dimensions of the cave used

Cheers,

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 16 Feb 2004, 20:30

Hello,

It's been several years since I spawned L66, so I don't remember what size they laid in. Using the ratios supplied should give results.

As for the males cohabiting the 18 gallon, there shouldn't be a problem. However, the odds are against either of them spawning. In a tank that small, I would expect that they will probably spend more time in territorial dispute than anything. That is not to say that it wouldn't be possible. Simply that I wouldn't put 2 males in that tank if I were trying to get a spawn.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 16 Feb 2004, 20:41

Just as long as one won't kill the other that's great.

They will only be together for 2-3 months and then they will each have their own tank and a female each!

Hopefully then I have a chance of getting some babies! From what I have read they will only breed between December and February, is this right?
Cheers

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 16 Feb 2004, 21:39

Hello,

In my experience, all plecos will spawn the entire year. However, I use constant alternating rainy/dry seasons. For Hypancistrus, I use one week rainy season with heavy water changes and one week dry only cleaning the filter cartridge if necessary.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 17 Feb 2004, 19:12

hey all,

I picked up my 2 female L066 today, they are huge

!!!!! I didn't realise how big they were until I had them in the tank, next to my current pair! I havn't picked up the male yet, I'm not sure whether I want him yet, because I would have to swap him for one of the ones I already have and I really like them! Both of the new one's are really plump so I shouldn't have any problems feeding them

Larry, if I conditioned them, do you think I would be able to spawn them in the summer?
Cheers,

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 17 Feb 2004, 19:14

Oh, BTW cheers Yannfulliquet!

Much appreciated

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 17 Feb 2004, 20:55

Hippyguy,

If you condition them properly, you may be able to get a spawn sooner than that. Most Hypancistrus can be conditioned in about a 6 weeks time. Zebras are the only exception that I am aware of and they usually take 8-10 weeks to condition. Of course, the success of spawning may be dependent upon whether the males have established dominance and whether the females can work out their differences.

Most normally, it takes a short period for plecos to figure out who the boss is, and there will be a dominant of each sex within a colony. Once that is done, most are rather straight forward about the rest of the mating process.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 17 Feb 2004, 21:30

One of the females is in near pristine condition, but the other is a bit scraggy.

She has a bit of fin rot and a small wound in her side, about an inch up from the base of her tail, but I've just fed her and she's eating fine.

I've decided to get the other male but am a little worried about my current one, he is about 1inch shorter than the new one

I don't mind him being 2nd in line but I don't want him to get beaten up! Oh yeah, just checking that my females are females, are they meant to have small odontodes on their pectoral fins? They also have cheek bristles but they are only about 3/8ths of an inch long, my smaller males are already about 5/8ths long, and growing! Hope this is right,
Cheers

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 18 Feb 2004, 01:44

Interopercular odontodes can grow and shorten as dominance is established. I don't really think they shorten. It's more likely that they are shed. More than likely they are females, but you can't be sure until you know the fish is conditioned properly and has a little age on it. I've seen it several times that I've bought what I thought to be a female based on interopercular length and only after the fish was placed in less aggressive quarters the odontodes grew out.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 18 Feb 2004, 10:26

Larry, once the bigger male has established dominance, which I think it will, will there be any fighting between him and the other one? I want to get him and keep my other 4, but I think that if it turns out I have 3males there could be problems in my tank! Anyway, I'm going to pick up the new male later, oh yeah do you think my cave, 2.5" wide, 2"high and 6.5"long (made out of tile) will be OK or to small? I've got a few others, all bigger than this, as well as a clay pipe, which is 3" diameter and 12" long, I'm going to cut it in half though (should I?)
Cheers

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 18 Feb 2004, 14:56

Even once dominance is established there will be skirmishes. That's just the pleco way. However, they won't be as aggressive.

The cave sound a bit too high and wide, but, given the choices, it is your best bet.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 18 Feb 2004, 15:15

OK, in the end I havn't bought the male! I may change my mind by the weekend though! The four fish I have are all eating fine and there are relatively few skirmishes between the 2 new females, though lots of fanning and shaking when they get near each other, I don't think they've sorted out whose boss yet! Before I stick the tile cave in the tank, do I need to do anything to it or is it safe as is? Also how should I prepare prawns, I know they will love them but should they be cooked or anything

Do you think I could put all 5 L066 in one tank or would this be asking for trouble, I really want the new male, but want to keep my existing fish!

What cave dimensions do you recommend, I will make one this evening, hopefully I will get it right!
Cheers,

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 18 Feb 2004, 19:10

One other thing, when building caves, is the height including or not including the males dorsal fin?
Cheers

pleco_breeder · Post by **pleco_breeder** » 18 Feb 2004, 20:32

hippyguy,

The height does not include the dorsal, only the body. The easiest way to make the cave would be to measure the fish and use the formula given.

5 L66 in an 18 gallon tank is just asking for trouble. Not only would they be cramped, there is a good chance of forcing skirmishes that really won't need to take place. When they lose a battle, they will have a tendency to go sulk for a very short time, often only a couple minutes. However, if the other fish have already claimed a local spot, then the beaten fish will have to fight again just to have somewhere to hide. I think you are going to be better off to just work with the current 4 fish and let them grow out and settle together.

Larry Vires

hippyguy · Post by **hippyguy** » 19 Feb 2004, 17:49

I have a 36" tank currently set up as a SA biotope. It has 3x 7cm bristlenoses, 9x dawn tetras, 5x cory aeneus, 1x male peppered cory, 1x unidentified tetra, 4x baby cory aeneus (2cm each), 2x pencilfish, and a khuli loach (not SA, I know). It is set up with bogwood, lots of plants, floating plants in one corner, a flowerpot, a fist sized rock and gravel base. If I built up a rock pile in one corner, removed a few plants, and a few corys, do you think I could temporarily house my small male L066 in there? I would then buy the other male, put him in the 30" and set up the 48" when the 48" was done, I would move the big male an 1female across and put the male from the 36" back in the 30". What do you reckon? Would this work IYO?
Cheers,

Chill · Post by **Chill** » 19 Feb 2004, 22:34

You can keep two males in the same tank, but only one will spawn with the females from what I've been told, so it would be a waste, IMO. They will fight some, but usually not once they establish dominance. It would be a better idea to get a 3rd female, IMO.

Barbie

Can support Larry on this. Mine even spawn on the same day

As for the length of the caves I disagre, they don't have to be 2x bodylength as long as they are "tight".

http://home.broadpark.no/~pkjer/English/L-066.html