Urgent help needed

Murfins · Post by **Murfins** » 03 Feb 2004, 19:00

1. Water parameters
a) Temerature range. 78 - 79
b) pH. 8.1
c) GH. 20 ppm
d) KH 150 ppm
e)Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, leavels. all over the place -
07/01/04 - NH3 0.1 ppm NO2 <0.1 ppm NO3 3 ppm 20% water change
09/01/04 - NH3 0.2 ppm NO2 0.1 ppm NO3 3 ppm 50% water change
20/01/04 - NH3 2.4 ppm!! NO2 0.5 ppm!! NO3 20ppm!! 60% water change
21/01/04 - NH3 1.2 ppm NO2 0.6 ppm NO3 20 ppm 50% water change
22/01/04 - NH3 0.5 ppm NO2 0.3 ppm NO3 7 ppm 50% water change
23/01/04 - NH3 0.3 ppm NO2 0.3 ppm NO3 7 ppm 65% water change
25/01/04 - NH3 0.1 ppm NO2 0.1 ppm NO3 4 ppm 30% water change
27/01/04 - NH3 0.1 ppm NO2 0.1 ppm NO3 5 ppm 30% water change
29/01/04 - didn't test but did 50% water change to prepare for dosing (see treatment)
01/02/04 - NH3 0.1 ppm NO2 0.2 ppm NO3 7 ppm (no water change as still dosing)
03/02/04 - NH3 0.1 ppm NO2 0.4 ppm NO3 30 ppm!!! (final day of dosing but levels demanded immediate 50% water change anyways)

f) Water change frequency following 09/01/04 water change resumed normal weekly water change of 25%. As of 20/01/04 schedule dictated by water levels (see above)
(Most LFS's will check your water and give a list of readings).

2. Tank set up
a) Size. 5.5 gallon (25 gallon normally but awaiting repair)
b) Substrate. silica sand
c) Filtration. AquaClear Mini
d) Furnishings. half of an unglazed terracotta pot, lots of plastic plants & bubble wall
e) Other tank mates. 2 Corydoras panda, 1 Corydoras jullii & 2 Corydoras paleatus
f) How long has it been set-up? 3rd of January 2003 - used filter foam from cycled tank

3. Symptoms / Problem description - 23 Jan - noticed signs of barbel erosion on smallest Panda & Jullii, Jullii also showed a bit of red streaking & split on pectoral fins and seemed lethargic and had clamped fins. Barbel erosion greatly improved with water changes, use of MelaFix and addition of Tubifex worms to nightly feedings.
29 Jan - red streaking noticed to be severly worse as it had spread to the underside of the Jullii and into all her fins, also the 2 Peppers showed similar symptoms (belly, fins) and Pandas slightly on pectoral fins.

4. Action taken (if any) 23 Jan - added 25 drops BettaFix (as it's a less concentrated form of MelaFix and was unsure on Cories handling the Melaleuca (BettaFix 0.2% MelaFix 1.0%)
24 - 27 Jan - daily dose of 1/4 tsp. MelaFix (since they did fine with the lower concentration I wanted to be more aggressive)
29 Jan - added carbon to filter, removed a few hours later and dosed with KANACYN (by Aquatronics) at 1/2 capsule (recommended dose by manufacturer)
31 Jan - 2nd dose of Kanacyn at 1/2 capsule (as directed by manufacturer)
02 Feb - 3rd (and final) dose of Kanacyn at 1/2 capsule (again as directed)

5. Medications used (if any) (oops, see Action taken)

Both Pandas and Peppers are doing well and active and eating fine. Jullii is very lethargic, not eating (that is seen - although no visible weight loss), slightly less amount of red streaking but still present and breathing very rapidly.

I forgot to mention that this tank has been having a bacterial bloom (white cloudy water) since the 20 Jan when water changes were increased and it has greatly increased since use of Kanacyn began ... too many water changes causing this plus the medication?

I want to do whatever is needed to save these guys! The Jullii is obviously of my most concern at the moment. Any advise on medication, actions to be taken, changes made ... PLEASE advise and I will do whatever I can to follow the recommendations.

THANK YOU SO MUCH in advance,

Alyssa

Post by **Coryman** » 03 Feb 2004, 23:09

The first thing that comes to mind is the pH, I don't know of any Corys that come from such hard alkaline water, you really need to get these down.

Is your water the same high pH and GH if it is then I would suggest using peat to your filter or even using a softening device to reduce the levels from the mains. If you are in an area that does not suffer from air pollution I would consider collecting rain water and filtering it before it is used.

I think the constant water changes and medication are doing any good at all. If you have a larger filter preferably an outside canister type, I would load it with peat moss and see if that brings the pH & GH down.

I would stop any feeding for three days and see what the readings are then.

How deep is the sand? anything more than 1/2" is to deep.

Ian

Murfins · Post by **Murfins** » 04 Feb 2004, 09:00

My water is that pH, GH & KH straight from the tap and that's with a water softener. I've tried adjusting my water in the past by using R/O as suggested by mods on another site and aside from that have always been told it's more stressful on the fish to fiddle with pH, GH & KH then it is for them to live in water that is not in their ideal range. I am certainly willing to try the peat and will pick some up right away.

As for the frequent water changes ... I'm not sure that you noticed this tank was cycling and having a bacterial bloom ... again I've been told it's best to change water as often as needed to bring the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate into safe zones. What would be best?

The sand I have may be slightly thicker then the 1/2" advised and I will be sure to lower it if it is. Is that advised for cleaning purposes?

Thanks for the advise and as said, I will be taking the steps suggested right away. Thank you.

Alyssa

Post by **Coryman** » 04 Feb 2004, 19:16

I would have also suggested using RO water but to keep everything at the requires parameter you would also need to have a meter to measure the conductivity and these are not cheap.

I use RO for some Cory species, its essential breed them, but I do put an additive in it to create the right value. The additive is a mix of 2 pt chalk, 1 pt epsom salts and 1 pt marine salt. I mix this in 2 liters of RO the solution is added to the stored RO a little at a time until I have reached the required reading. 80 - 100 ppm. Doing this ensures that I am using exactly the same water every time

Ian

Murfins · Post by **Murfins** » 05 Feb 2004, 01:33

Thank you very much, I will try the suggested "recipe". Do you use the R/O mixture exclusively in the tank or do you also have tap water added? Just want to clarify. ;)

Thanks SO much Ian, this help is greatly appreciated.

Alyssa

Post by **Coryman** » 05 Feb 2004, 10:25

I don't mix tap water with the R/O but you could so long as you can check and keep the parameters constant.

Ian

Murfins · Post by **Murfins** » 05 Feb 2004, 16:52

Thanks again!

I will be making this one of my top priorities.

Alyssa

clothahump · Post by **clothahump** » 14 Feb 2004, 19:56

1 pt marine salt.

So it is now ok to use salt with corys then? this goes against all I have been told over the years.
When did this change?

Post by **Coryman** » 14 Feb 2004, 21:20

Tim,

If you consider the facts the actual amounts of salts added to the R/O water is quite small.

The mix, which I will repeat is 1 part epsom salt - 1 part marine salt- 2 parts chalk; this is desolved in a 2 liter pop bottle of R/O water. My storage vat contains 40 gallons of R/O water which measures 20 ppm. To raise the hardness to the required level of between 80 - 100 ppm I actually add 3 capfuls (That is using the pop bottle cap) of the solution, which is not an awful lot.

Your other comment about Corydoras not tolerating salt is actually a myth and something I have never advocated, armored catfishes are actually fairly tolerant, it is the naked species of catfish that do not tolerate salt. I don't actually know when or how the idea that Corys do not tolerate salt came about. I have and still do on occasions use small amounts for some ailments, but do not add it to the water at the so called recommended rates as is printed on the boxes of aquarium salts.

Ian

clothahump · Post by **clothahump** » 14 Feb 2004, 21:28

Cheers Ian, that really does change things.