Red Tail Cat!!!

Doc_Piscis · Post by **Doc_Piscis** » 09 Jan 2004, 22:41

Saw this on the cichlid-forum website!

jim2y · Post by **jim2y** » 12 Jan 2004, 08:58

I think this huge RTC can eat the boy who is standing beside the catfish!

micahgee · Post by **micahgee** » 12 Jan 2004, 23:00

JESUS, that is one big @$$ RTC, heh i wouldnt want to be swiming in THAT river, god it could take off your leg with ease...i hope they dont like human flesh...

stibolt · Post by **stibolt** » 14 Jan 2004, 08:37

Ironic isnÂ´t it, that itÂ´s the same catfish as the little, cute 10 cm long redtails, which you can buy down in the local petstore. .

general-sherman · Post by **general-sherman** » 14 Jan 2004, 12:17

Whats more ironic (or is it moronic?) is the salesperson telling you "it will grow to the size of the tank". And I think the people buying them are just as stupid as the people selling them

If the don't get 61" and 150 pounds, your tanks too small!
And thats cruel...

Waldo · Post by **Waldo** » 19 Jan 2004, 11:37

i didn't know they had nuclear power plants in brazil. can you say "STEROIDS"?

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 20 Jan 2004, 18:25

Once again I bring up the fact that not every one can expect to raise a record catfish .
If this is the case I would safely say that General-Shermans parents didnot do a very good job of
raising the poor guy because humans have grown to the height of 8 ft 11in. and 490 lbs.

If we are going to use max growth size . I feel that I can safely say very few of the fish you
keep will ever reach or surpass the size of the record for that fish. Therefor they are not being
cared for properly.
I guess you have never thought about why there is only one worlds record for size and why
it stands for so long ,or why all things ane not the same size.

To say a R\T cat has the potential to get 150 lbs. is one thing. But to say that it has to be to
be raised properly is another. Don't scare people off with max sizes I would think 100 lbs.
would be a more realistic size for the average R\T.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 21 Jan 2004, 13:12

Katman wrote: If this is the case I would safely say that General-Shermans parents didnot do a very good job of raising the poor guy because humans have grown to the height of 8 ft 11in. and 490 lbs.

It is highly unrealistic to attempt to draw any comparison between growth patterns of humans and those of fish.

Katman wrote:To say a R\T cat has the potential to get 150 lbs. is one thing. But to say that it has to be to be raised properly is another. Don't scare people off with max sizes I would think 100 lbs. would be a more realistic size for the average R\T.

What matters is that there is the potential for this species to grow to these dimensions, and that is what should be used as a guide. It may be that any given specimen may only reach 50 lbs, or 60, or 80, or whatever, but if the maximum potential size has been used when planning housing at least it will be adequately catered for regardless of the final size.

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 21 Jan 2004, 22:11

You are right Humans are a bad example to compare aginst anything natural. But if you pick
any other living thing you will get the same results.

I can also see your point in saying prepare for the extreme. But you also have to take into
account that many of largest are not normal . Let me give you some examples.

I could sell you two fish, lets use Shilbe, One at 20 gr. the other at 250 gr.both are from The
same hatch.both 6 weeks old . Which one is normal? The smaller one . The ratio of what we call
( jumpers) is about 5 in 10,000 fry.

I stocked a pond with chanel cats, 1000 3in. fish. two years later we harvested the pond. The
average fish weighted about 4 1\2 lbs. One weighted 15 and another weighted 16 lbs. So
should I tell you ,if you stock a pond under the same condictions you can expect all your fish
to weigh 16 lbs or should I say expect an average of 4 1\2 with a chance of 2 out of a thousand
to go over 15 lbs.

Any one that deals in fish in numbers understands this. Any one who breeds fish will not keep
these fish for breeders because they often have a problem. If you want to produce large fish
the simplest way is to inhibit the development of the reproductive organs. This really makes
them grow huge. Plus there are many other things that cause excessive growth.

As for the reasone for the jumpers in the Shilbe they turn cannibalistic. Why ? we don't know
but the point is things happen that create these larger fish, And I don't see the logic in telling
everyone that they can expect their S. euptrus grow to 14 in because I once had 1 out of a few
thousand that grew that big. Largest is alway based on the extreame not the normal.

katfishguy · Post by **katfishguy** » 22 Jan 2004, 01:11

Katman,, I am on your side !! the admins and mods on this board are dead against these large cats,, that is why I kind of reduced posting on this site,, I will be setting up a forum on my website http://www.rarecatfish.net sometime soon,, it will cater solely for the large fish enthusiasts, i love my hobby and enjoy keeping all the pimelodid and other big cats !!

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 22 Jan 2004, 01:26

Hey guys!

I really dont understand your point! Not everybody lives in Fla. being able to set up ponds for these huge growing fishes like the big pims...if you are specialists in keeping them its great that you have space, money and experience to do so, but have you realized that this is an international forum with lots of people that buy these fishes into smallish tanks with no way out? If i buy a fish that can reach 2 meters in the wild dyou think its wise to put it in a small tank knowing that everything above 40 cms means death or a cruel life in cramped surroundings?
@katguy this is a really poor try to advertise your forum here. "Dont listen to them, come to my site ill "allow" you to keep supersized fishes..."

katfishguy · Post by **katfishguy** » 22 Jan 2004, 01:48

Caol_ila,, first of all I am not trying to advertise anything,, if you have been to my website you can see that it is just a site that I use to share my fish collection with everyone else,, I don't have any forum ,,but when ever I talk about my fish everyone just keeps flaming about how big the fish get and I shouldn't keep fish that get too big,, I kind of got frustrated with all the remarks and that led me think about my own forum,, it is not yet created yet,, but I am thinking about it.

I do agree that a lot of people keep big fish in small tanks and they get stunted,,, and I too am against keeping these monsters in small tanks,, but there are a few of us that are willing to do what it takes to raise these fish,, and when people keep shouting at me everytime I post something about my fish,,, it gets on my nerves !!!

I hope you can understand what I am trying to say,, but if you still think I am trying to advertise my website,, I can't help it.

FYI,, these are some of the images of my fish that I contributed to this website

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/contribs/102.php

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 22 Jan 2004, 02:56

Don't take me wrong ,I am not trying to go aginst any one here, or thier tank size suggestions .
I don't go to the extreams on sizes ,not all fish grow to world record size or there would be no
world records.
All I am asking is why give the size of a fish that is possibly the largest ever caught and then
make the statement that if your fish doesn't get that big you are doing something wrong.

If someone ask about Sorubims, Don't automatically say that they can grow to one meter,
when some of the smaller species barelly reach a 12 in.full grown.

This makes little difference on smaller fish , but 12 in. makes a lot of difference in tank size
when it comes to larger fish.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 22 Jan 2004, 15:22

Katman wrote:You are right Humans are a bad example to compare aginst anything natural. But if you pick any other living thing you will get the same results.

Not sure what you mean here. Most Mammals and Birds grow little once sexual maturity is reached, but Reptiles, Amphibians and Fish may continue to grow for the majority of their life span, albeit often slowly once they become reproductively active. Other organisms show every growth pattern that can be imagined.

Katman wrote:I could sell you two fish, lets use Shilbe, One at 20 gr. the other at 250 gr.both are from the same hatch.both 6 weeks old . Which one is normal? The smaller one . The ratio of what we call 'jumpers' is about 5 in 10,000 fry.
I stocked a pond with channel cats, 1000 3in. fish. two years later we harvested the pond. The average fish weighted about 4 1\2 lbs. One weighted 15 and another weighted 16 lbs. So should I tell you ,if you stock a pond under the same condictions you can expect all your fish to weigh 16 lbs or should I say expect an average of 4 1\2 with a chance of 2 out of a thousand to go over 15 lbs.

This would depend on food quality and availability, temperature, water quality, stocking density and a whole range of other factors. However we are not talking about aquaculture situations where a small number of fish out of the whole stock will always grow much faster due to genetic factors and social dominance within the enclosure (even though this may be undesirable for processing purposes). We should be looking at a small number of fish in total (even just a single fish) maintained under optimal conditions with optimal nutrition, where all the environmental requirements are catered for.

Katman wrote:As for the reasone for the jumpers in the Shilbe they turn cannibalistic. Why ?

This is a strategy often used by Amphibians, particularly Urodeles, where a few larvae become solitary, develop large jaws and predate on their smaller siblings, growing much faster and going through metamorphosis earlier as a result of this richer food. This means that under adverse climatic conditions (such as the dry season starting early) there are at least a few out of every year class that will survive, as a kind of 'insurance policy'. Their solitary nature does mean though that they lose the protection from other predators that being in a group brings. It seems quite likely that fish from seasonal environments (such as Schilbe) would do the same, as it would mean that if the floodplain nursery areas start to recede early there will at least be some of that year's youngsters large enough to compete in the main river channel until the rains return. The reason all individuals aren't primarily cannibalistic is probably that it is inefficient to use your own species as food when there are other food sources that can be made use of. It's bad enough being eaten by another species without having to watch out for your own kind!

Katman wrote: And I don't see the logic in telling everyone that they can expect their S. euptrus grow to 14 in because I once had 1 out of a few thousand that grew that big

No, but they should be informed that it is a possibility under good aquarium conditions. Nothing wrong with saying expect maybe 7-10 in but to be aware that larger is not unknown.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 22 Jan 2004, 15:52

katfishguy wrote: the admins and mods on this board are dead against these large cats

As far as I know none of the moderation team are 'dead against' large catfish. Properly housed they can make magnificent display specimens.
What I am 'dead against' though is the keeping of them in aquaria that are far too small ('Why does tthe RTC in my 6ft aquarium keep scratching/coughing/puking?') or with unsuitable tankmates ('My RTC ate my fish, what else can I keep with him?') or with insufficient filtration ('I have a Fluval 4 and an Eheim but my water is still cloudy, why is this?', ''My RTC ate my filter stem, why was this?') or in a depauperate environment ('My aquarium just has sand on the bottom and no decor and my RTC just goes round in circles at one end, why does it do this?') etc. etc. ad infinitum/ad nauseam.
I don't see why people should expect to house fish under conditions that are unacceptable by modern standards of animal welfare without others passing comment.

I'm not suggesting that your fish fall under this category, so maybe if you were to outline what your recommended guidelines are for the housing of large catfish and how you developed them this could be a start point for working towards basic husbandry standards on PC for people who do want to keep larger Catfish.

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 22 Jan 2004, 22:30

What really rang my bell so to say was " If they don't get 61 in.and 150 your tank is to small
and that is cruel"
That be the case someone needs to go threw the Cat-elog and the CotM and make some changes.

I realize that you donot have the luxury of working with large numbers of fish,but I was hoping
I could in some way help you understand the bigger picture and pass on some of the knowlage
I have gained in the past 40 some years collecting ,importing and breeding catfish. But for this
to happen you have to keep an open mind,as this is a compleatly diffrent world.

As far me being in Fla. I wasn't born here . I am a hobbiest just like you ,but I let my quest for
knowlage and the challenge of doing what no one else could do get the best of me. So as I have
never had money I was forced to make my hobby pay for it's self. There is no reason you can not
walk the same road I did.

You will not see me quoting books as I was taught that proves only one can read.The only
knowlage I have to offer is what works for me,And what I have learned thr hard way.

mitch · Post by **mitch** » 22 Jan 2004, 22:56

I've said before that these big cats as well as other big fish should not be sold in the uk because of thier requierments (unless a licence/veting system is introduced) as there are plenty of fish that grow to a nice size and maintainable.

But at the moment they are. If someone has brought one to deliberatly to keep them in a small tank and to keep him there for the duration of his shortened life. Now these people should be choped up and feed to their fish, now that would be justic.

But as for the others that have bought these not knowing, not researching or not being advised about the fish there going to buy, should they be refured to as the same as above. Well I dont belive they should, so when they have these problems, (see previous posts) or simlar ,where should they go for advise? Back to the same twat's that are willing to sell these fish in the first place????? No, they need to find some good mentor's/advisers, people with good knoladge and experiance to help gide them through. If not for the persons sake, for the fishes helth. Where beter to find these people.. than the world wide web. Like this site. (isnt that what its for anyhow?)
So please dont make people feel stupid because they are posting something that maybee obvious to yourself or against your belief's and try and help the person, even if your only thinking of the fish and its health.

Post by **Shane** » 23 Jan 2004, 00:32

Since I am the Moderator of this forum I would like to make a couple of points.

the admins and mods on this board are dead against these large cats

This is simply untrue. It is not the policy of this site or the Mod/Admin staff to be against any group of catfishes. We may all have our own areas of specialization, but it is quite safe to say that we are all fascinated by every member of the order Siluriforms. Our goal, and thus our "policy," is simply to provide the best and most accurate information that we are able to given our collective experience. I could rattle on and on about the backgrounds, educations, years of field experience, new species described, articles written, etc etc of the staff, but it is not necessary. If you have been a catfish fan for very long you know who we all are. Pick up any catfish book written in recent years and you will find many of our names in the acknowledgements section for the expertise we have provided. I do not say these things to brag on myself or anyone else. I simply bring them up because the internet is a world of faceless communication where one never truly knows with whom they are communicating. In addition to the expertise of the staff, we are very fortunate to enjoy the participation of several forum members whose names are synonymous with "catfish expertise."

I offer this long introduction to make a specific point. No matter what our experience, nor how carefully researched our answers, some people just will not like the advice we give them. You can not argue with these individuals as likes and dislikes are personal feelings. These people are not basing their decisions on facts, figures, or research, but simply what they like and do not like. Katfishguy clearly does not like the opinions of the Admins/Mods and thus, to his mind, this means that the Admin/Mods do not like big catfishes. I can asure Katfishguy, and everyone else, that we are just as enamored of these fantastic fishes as anyone else.

But as for the others that have bought these not knowing, not researching or not being advised about the fish there going to buy, should they be refured to as the same as above. Well I dont belive they should, so when they have these problems, (see previous posts) or simlar ,where should they go for advise? Back to the same twat's that are willing to sell these fish in the first place????? No, they need to find some good mentor's/advisers, people with good knoladge and experiance to help gide them through. If not for the persons sake, for the fishes helth. Where beter to find these people.. than the world wide web. Like this site. (isnt that what its for anyhow?)
So please dont make people feel stupid because they are posting something that maybee obvious to yourself or against your belief's and try and help the person, even if your only thinking of the fish and its health.

I could not agree more with this post, but I am not sure who has been made to feel stupid for doing such a thing. Have you ever seen a Mod/Admin on this site flame or attack a person for mistakingly buying a fish that they can not house? I can not find an example of this anywhere in the forums.

That be the case someone needs to go threw the Cat-elog and the CotM and make some changes.

Katman, if you or anyone else is aware of mistakes in the COTM articles or Cat-eLog please inform us what they are, as well as your source of information, and we will be happy to make any necessary changes.

Given the frequency of large cat questions in this particular forum, I will try to get a FAQ up as soon as possible.

-Shane

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 23 Jan 2004, 01:24

I totally agree with what the cat-elog and CotM says about R\T .

I guess the whole point has been lost. Maybe I am wrong . If so tell me and I will back off.
The way I look at this forum is, it is a teaching tool . Therefor if someone makes a statment
and no one has a counter or gives a reason why it is wrong. All the guys that are here to learn
think that it is fact. To me wrong information is worse than not knowing.

Sorry if I offended any one. This was not my purpose. I was just trying to add a little insite
in a field that I thought very few people on the forum had a chance to get in to. And correct
what I thought was a wrong statment.

katfishguy · Post by **katfishguy** » 23 Jan 2004, 15:27

Shane,, I might have over reacted with my comment when I referred to the "admins and mods",, I apologize for it,, I think I got mad when someone said I was trying to advertise my website(which I honestly wasn't tying to),,I agree with what you had to say,,but I want you to know that I am always open to suggestions and critique regarding what I say,, after all we all here to learn and share knowledge,,

Given the frequency of large cat questions in this particular forum, I will try to get a FAQ up as soon as possible.

this I think is a very good idea !!

once again I don't want to get this thread any more heated because of what I said,,and I am sorry about my ignorant comment about the mods and admins,,

I rest my case and i will try not to make any more non-constructive remarks,, I know most of you guys(mods) are more experienced than me,, but if you need any kind of info while coming up with that FAQ,, I would be more than happy to help out

peace

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 23 Jan 2004, 19:41

In summary (if we are at that point) I'd like to add a few things from my (webmaster) point of view. I'm glad we appear to have agreed about there not being an anti- big cat agenda. There isn't. What we do have is a strong stance against people knowingly buy RTC without the ability to keep them alive for more than a few years at best. These people very often have closed minds and, as Shane says, will not consider expert opinion if it present hard choices for them. Despite posting here for advice! Very few people have the resources to keep these fish but far too many try and THEY are why there is a strong skepticism attached to big cat topics.

RTCs often bear the brunt of this but many other species fall into this category, Pangasius being a really good case in point. It boils down to personal responsibility and that, I'm sure we all agree, varies from human to human, from culture to culture.

On the original subject, who said this was a record sized RTC? It's just an adult. Before man reached the amazon you can be sure there were loads this size maybe bigger.

Shane said, a long time ago now, that he only knew a few aquarists with ponds big enough to house an RTC and they were all too smart to use that huge resource on one fish. Smart may not be the best word, as what fish we keep is a matter for personal taste. I would, however, tend to have to agree.

Bottom line? How many aquarists have kept any large cat and have it die of old age?

Jools

mitch · Post by **mitch** » 23 Jan 2004, 21:37

Have you ever seen a Mod/Admin on this site flame or attack a person for mistakingly buying a fish that they can not house? I can not find an example of this anywhere in the forums.

What I am 'dead against' though is the keeping of them in aquaria that are far too small ('Why does tthe RTC in my 6ft aquarium keep scratching/coughing/puking?') or with unsuitable tankmates ('My RTC ate my fish, what else can I keep with him?') or with insufficient filtration ('I have a Fluval 4 and an Eheim but my water is still cloudy, why is this?', ''My RTC ate my filter stem, why was this?') or in a depauperate environment ('My aquarium just has sand on the bottom and no decor and my RTC just goes round in circles at one end, why does it do this?') etc. etc. ad infinitum/ad nauseam.

Sorry i hope i dont offend anyone, but are the people asking these questions asking for help or are they just plain ignorant. Who cares, just advise them the best you can.
They may even know the answers and just testing you lot, you'll never know.

Bottom line? How many aquarists have kept any large cat and have it die of old age?

Probably nobody!!! But i'll give it my best. And with the right information and help i might even succed!!

Any how, back to normality, how long should a RTC live? Answer in years please and not lb's.

Cheers

Katman · Post by **Katman** » 24 Jan 2004, 02:57

The best I can tell you is ,I have seen them live about 20 years in a spring fed lake, and they
were still going strong.

As far as total life span goes I could not even guess. Years ago while working with
Elasmobranchii (sharks) we discovered that there is no such thing as old age.Their cells
regenerate until they die of unnatural causes.
This leads me to wonder if some of the other more primitive fish that attain such large size
may also lead the same life style ,such as the Sturgeons,gars and large cat fish. I know that
a lot of work has been done on fish age ,but what about the condition of the fish at the time.

Maybe H.H. has seen some paper written on this and can enlighten us.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 24 Jan 2004, 09:50

mitch wrote:Sorry i hope i dont offend anyone, but are the people asking these questions asking for help or are they just plain ignorant. Who cares, just advise them the best you can.
They may even know the answers and just testing you lot, you'll never know.

The issue here isn't taking offence, the issues, in the main are two fold.

The first is people asking for advice and then discarding it without consideration - they are usually looking for someone to agree with them rather than benefit from the cumulative experience of the regulars here - which probably runs into a few centuries of fishkeeping! It's like trying to climb ben nevis in a t-shirt and sandals then wondering why the mountain rescue guys are pissed off at you falling off the trail and breaking a leg. If you manage it without harming yourself, does that make you right? There is a dividing line here between human endevour and something ranging from ignorance thru pigheadedness right down to know-it-all arrogance. It is very rare to find an instance of the issue of keeping big cats fall down on the side of the former.

Second is simply the waste of time and money that is answering a question which you had answered a similar one of two weeks ago. In part this is the admins fault and we plan to rectify it by adding a comprehensive big cat FAQ.

BTW, to answer a PM I got on the subject. If you grow your RTC (or whatever large fish) up to whatever size you can and then eat it, then I personally, am OK with that. For any living thing to be eaten by something higher up the food chain is fine by me.

Jools

mitch · Post by **mitch** » 24 Jan 2004, 11:48

Second is simply the waste of time and money that is answering a question which you had answered a similar one of two weeks ago. In part this is the admins fault and we plan to rectify it by adding a comprehensive big cat FAQ.

Cool, cant wait

BTW, to answer a PM I got on the subject. If you grow your RTC (or whatever large fish) up to whatever size you can and then eat it, then I personally, am OK with that. For any living thing to be eaten by something higher up the food chain is fine by me.

I remeber reading in a book that native people of the amazon didnt eat RTC as they made them sick after trying. Cant remember why so dont quote me on this.
Can you eat RTC's?

BTW my RTC has just eatern a grain of sand.............................................

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Jan 2004, 11:52

Katman wrote:This leads me to wonder if some of the other more primitive fish that attain such large size may also lead the same life style ,such as the Sturgeons,gars and large cat fish.

In spite of the appearance they sometimes have, Catfish are not all that primitive. They are placed along with the Characoids, Cyprinoids, Gymnotoids and a few others which possess the Weberian apparatus.
In terms of age, I wouldn't be surprised to find a Red Tail could push the half-century under ideal conditions, although around 20 is the longest I've heard of.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Jan 2004, 12:00

mitch wrote:I remeber reading in a book that native people of the amazon didnt eat RTC as they made them sick after trying. Cant remember why so dont quote me on this.
Can you eat RTC's?

This was written by Ol' Herbie I think, and is another one of the 'facts' that appear in his writings for which no other corroboration can be found. If I remember rightly he said it's because they have pink-tinged flesh which is regarded as somehow taboo. Although there are certainly cases where flesh from certain animals is eaten for the effect it has on human physiology, Red Tails are certainly fished for and eaten in the Amazon without worry.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 24 Jan 2004, 12:54

katfishguy wrote:I rest my case and i will try not to make any more non-constructive remarks,, I know most of you guys(mods) are more experienced than me,, but if you need any kind of info while coming up with that FAQ,, I would be more than happy to help out

OK, let's start the debate off with minimum aquarium size.
In my view, for a fish that in the wild is an active swimmer while foraging, taking the realistic potential length of the fish as 'L', the minimum final aquarium size should be 5L by 1.5L by 1.5L.
Therefore if we take a 1 metre long RTC, this would give an aquarium of 5m by 1.5m by 1.5m.
Discuss

Post by **Shane** » 25 Jan 2004, 03:34

Mitch (and others),
It is not true that RTCs are not eaten in the Amazon. In fact, I am unaware of any Amazonian tribe or group of mixed (mestizo) people that does not eat them. The Yanomami of the Orinoco traditionally did not eat RTCs as under their taxonomic system Tonina (Inia or pink dolphins), Cajaro (RTCs), Danta (tapir), jaguars, and monos (monkeys) all belong to the same family as humans because all are big animals. Some of the Yanomami that have little contact with the modern world may still practice this. The ones that have contact with the modern world have changed their beliefs.
This field of study is known as ethnotaxonomy or ethnosystematics and is quite interesting. You can give somebody 30 stones of different sizes and colors and tell them to sort the stones. Depending on their cultural preferences (i.e. how they were raised) they might divide the stones by size or color or hue or shape or whatever. A Yanomami would not see that a RTC is more like a Pimelodella. He or she would see it as being closer to a human because humans and RTCs are big animals and certainly a Pimelodella is closer to the mouse because they are about the same size. Follow the logic?
-Shane

general-sherman · Post by **general-sherman** » 27 Jan 2004, 13:14

Katman,
as the person who appears to have made the offending statement, I have this to say:
Nobody was supposed to take that seriously. I was making a tounge in cheek reference to the fact that these fish are rarely offered proper care and housing in captivity. In short, I was joking. I have nothing against the people who go out of their way to provide adequete care for captive specimens. I don't feel they should be offered for sale...but I guess they should be available to people who can care for them properly. I do mean properly, and I have pretty big ideas on the definition of what properly keeping giant catfish is. Rightly so, I believe, because they may not reach world record sizes, but they can easily max out at 3'-4' (at least). Seeing one in a 6'x2'x2' tank is like seeing an Eagle in a parakeet (or budgie) cage

-Shaun

Red Tail Cat!!!

Red Tail Cat!!!

Ironic?

Rtc