WOW- 1st spawn from F1 group of L173

[TwoTankAmin]

I was working late tonight on pleco tanks out in the fish space. I just finished cleaning the tank which holds 11 F1 L173 I have been growing out for about 2.5 years. I brought 5/14 original fish to CatCon 2016 to get a positive ID (which I got from 2 well known pleco experts). However, once I acquired the wild caught adult group, I sold 3/14 of the F1 group.

I had just sat down on my stool to clean the F1 zebra pleco tank under the 173 tank when I caught movement of something at fists I thought was a shrimp. But I did the old double take as I realized there were no shrimp in the tank. It was a very small fry.

All I can say is WOW. I was actually cheering out loud for about 30 seconds.

(edited to change sat on my "still" to my "stool," DOH.)

[stuby]

Congratulations bud! Bet there is more running around the tank... or still with dad. Hope to see some pictures of the little beauties soon!

Take care,
Chuck

[Addicted]

Congratulations!!!!

I cannot wait to see them... Great news..

Best of luck
David

[bekateen]

Wonderful news! Congrats TTA!

Cheers, Eric

[amazonaquatics]

Congrats!! This is excellent news!

[TwoTankAmin]

Thanks for the kinds words.

Quick update- I spotted 3 individual fry zipping around the tank. I had dropped a frozen BBS cube into the tank before I came in to post this thread.

I feel like I contributed to getting a bunch of zebras into the hands of breeders over the years. If I am lucky, I will do the same for 173s before I retire from the hobby in a few years. This was the single most difficult pleco for me to acquire. I see almost nobody in the states offering them. I expect they will go the way of zebras in the wild, whatever that turns out to be.

[Mexnotex]

Nicely done Chris,
Beautiful species and best of luck with man more spawns.
M. Ortiz

[TwoTankAmin]

Quick update- last night while feeding the tank I spotted 4 fry out and about. Hopefully there are a few more that are hiding.

[Andrewjw]

Fantastic!
Put me on the unofficial list for your quest to spread them out across the states!!!
Andy

[TwoTankAmin]

Bummed, I found a dead fry stuck to the mattenfilter two days ago.

[TwoTankAmin]

It took long enough, but I now have a dad from this group on eggs. And not to be outdone, the wild caught group has a dad on fresh eggs as well.

[bekateen]

Excellent!

[TwoTankAmin]

I am a nosy pleco breeder. I usually flashlight caves almost daily. Since the above post I have gotten busier and had not done cave checks for a while. This past week I had resumes them and I had not been able to spot wigglers to free swimmers in the cave. Yesterday as I cleaned the tank I decided I needed to post here that the spawn had been a failure. After all one should admit failures if they are going to post the successes in tanks. When I finished the 6 tanks in the fish, I would make the post.

The 173 tank is the top tank on a two level stand and the next tank to be cleaned and water changed was the one under it.This old man has all his under tanks such that the bottom is a foot above floor level. This lets me sit on a movable stool when I work on the tank. It also tends to leave my eye level as the bottom few inches of the tank above.

When I sat up from siphoning, to my great surprise and delight, there was a very small fry plastered on the glass about an inch above the frame.

TR 173 Fry

[illumnae]

Congratulations on your success!

Could I please check what size caves are good for L173? I understand they're larger than L46 so the 1" x 1.5" size caves used for L46 would be too small?

[TwoTankAmin]

173 are definitely bigger than zebras when they reach adult size. However, 173 is also slower growing than zebra, 236, 450 and contradens (the other Hypans I have worked with).

173 will begin to spawn before it reaches full size. So the caves needed depend on the size the fish have reached. I find with groups that the individuals grow at different rates. The result is I put caves of varying sizes and shapes in a tank and the fish manage to sort it out. Despite using multiple caves or varying shapes placed throughout a tank, I find that the spawns tend to happen in the same caves. While other caves may be used and some even claimed, there is no action in them. The fish know where they need to be better than I ever will, so I give them choice.

The wild group I was sent were mostly close to adult size when they arrived. The TR group came in at about 1.75 inches and I patiently watched them grow for a couple of years before their first spawn.

But for full adult size 173, I suggest that square or rectangular caves of 1.5 inch to 2 inches are appropriate. Similarly, they need caves that are a bit longer than their smaller B&W counterparts. I would suggest about 5 - 6 inches deep. With both of my 173 groups most of the spawns have occurred in the square/rectangle caves. But I have had a couple in round caves.

I have been very lucky with these fish. Currently I have two spawns ongoing in the wild caught tank and yesterday there were two trappings in the tank raised group. 3 of these are in square/rectangle caves and one is in a round cave. I looked this morning and was pleased to see the WC alpha male facing outwards. This is usually the case when they are in the actual act of spawning.

One last observation. When they are in spawning mode, the 173 get odontile growth all over their body. Even zebra males will show some of this, but nowhere near as prominently. I am not sure, but from observing zebras at night on the front glass fighting, I believe this body growth is a "weapon" in pecking order fights. I have seen my zebras clashing their sides together and breaking apart and doing it again. It seems to me odontile growth on the flanks of the fish rasps against the other and vice versa. This seems to comport with the fading or redness we sometime see after the fact.

One last note on caves. My original 236 group loves to use the squashed caves sold for fry hiding as their preferred spawning caves. I was very surprised by this. My second, much larger group of 236 tends to use any shape cave they can manage to claim. So they are spawning in all shapes.

[illumnae]

Wow thank you so much for sharing your wealth of knowledge!

[TwoTankAmin]

I jinxed myself. Both caves in the TR group are now just the male and neither have eggs. On a better note the wilds have one male on wigglers, one male likely on eggs and I just counted 13 assorted fry in the places I usually see them. I wish I could get pictures but they are located beyond my camera and skills.