Help: The unthinkable happend.

[torusle]

Long story short:

I was re-homing my fish from an old 180 liter tank into a 350 liter Eldorado. For the day of re-homing I've moved the smaller fish into my 30 liter quarantine/hospital tank, and the other half (bristlenose and panaqolus) into a large plastic box that is sitting in the bath tube right now.

The 350 liter "Eldorado" bursted in the middle of the night without any apparent reason. The complete horror show of water flooding your flat.

Right now I can neither use my old 180 liter tank (slightly leaking) nor my broken 350 liter tank. The fish has to stay where they are right now.

The small guys have a filter. It's very cuddly inside their tank but I'm confident that they will make it for a few days.

They all have proper temperature and oxygen, and they are all on a diet to prepare them for the move.

Question: The big guys in the box have no filtration. What can I do?

[bekateen]

I sympathize with your disaster. My only suggestions are (1) frequent water changes for the big guys and (2) can you find a mature sponge filter to go into the tub with the big fish?

Regards, Eric

[Acanthicus]

No worries, twice a day a full water change and they will be fine, just dont feed them.

[torusle]

Hi. Thanks for the quick reply.

Unfortunatly I don't have a mature filter here. I have my old filter media in a plastic bag, but its out of the water since 24 hours now. Really unsure if it's a good idea to use the filter after such a while. I've read bad things.

On the plus side: The plecos are in the box with all their wood and pleco caves and about 50% of the old aquarium water so there is at least some bacteria and plenty of space to hide.

I'll do the water change and see how it goes. Maybe I can quickly get an interim tank and hope for the best.

[Viktor Jarikov]

If they all came from the same tank and your QT tank filter or at least bio media are transferable, you could consider getting a large plastic tub, e.g., from a shop that sells country and farm supplies, e.g., a stock tank or trough for watering cattle, horses, etc. of large enough size to accommodate all your hapless fish. Or a plastic tub / tank that is used to hold spraying solutions for agricultural purposes. Or a water storage tank, or a kiddie pool, etc. You can find a used one for cheap in your local classifieds, just make sure it is clean.

Or you can quickly rig up a pond with concrete blocks and rubber liner.

Examples:

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[Bas Pels]

I once used a similar construction for a while, using new containers. I think the plastic was protected against something, using a chemical the fish did not like. Anyway, I hads some problems with the fish.

Therefore, if you have a choise, a used container would be much better than a new one - in such a case these chemicals will have been dissolved. At least partly.

[torusle]

Thanks for the comments, folks.

So far no dead fish and water parameters of their temporary home are pretty good. The plecos are hiding in their caves all day and the corydoras mostly hide under the wood. They only come out in the morning.

I bought a bottle of JBL Detoxol "instant detoxifier" just to be prepared when things get downhill. I'm not a fan of chemicals, hope I don't need it.

Once the new tank arrives I'll ask around to get some used filter media and filter gunk to quick-start the new tank.

[torusle]

Folks, it's time for an update:

The new tank arrived. Bought from a local aquarium shop. Told him what happened, and he gave me used filter media

All fish survived and they are back in a proper tank now. Thank you all for your valuable tips. I'm preparing for a little nitrite peak while the tank settles, but I'm sure I will handle this.

Thank you all.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Great job and news! Why only nitrite? Not ammonia too? For ammonia detoxification I use Ammolock solution while for nitrite I use table salt.

[Bas Pels]

It may be odd, but I never ever read about problems with ammonia in Europe, before I went on the internet. And frankly, I think all reports about ammonia come from English speaking countries.

If I may be so bold as to try finding an explanation, I was informed people in America sometimes like to have a high tech tank, with a lot of fishes, which gets a 50 % waterchange every day.

I never read about such a tank before, and thinking `a fish excretes ammonia, which is relatively fast turned into nitrite, which in its turn is turned into nitrate, but this latter process is rather slow` the explanation is that the standard European tank contains few enaough fishes to have the produced ammonia turned into nitrite, with only a small amount of bacteria, very close to the natural amount

If you keep, say, 5 times the amount of fish in the same tank, the produced ammonia will incvrease fivefold, and be too mch for a standard population. That is, the bacteria population will have to grow first, before the system starts working.

But still, this is just an assumption, based on what I heard about keeping fishes elsewhere. I´m certain there are a lot of exceptions.

[Lycosid]

If I may be so bold as to try finding an explanation, I was informed people in America sometimes like to have a high tech tank, with a lot of fishes, which gets a 50 % waterchange every day.

I'm sure some people have these, but basing an explanation of the difference in European and American fishkeeping on these tanks is tenuous at best. I've never seen a tank like this, they aren't what sets the tone.

However, sometimes important ideas to get "siloed" because of language or geography. It seems more likely to me that this is what's going on. (For instance, most Americans believe that eggs need to be refrigerated. Even the ones who know that Europeans don't refrigerate eggs generally believe that this is a special magic of eggs in Europe.)

[Bas Pels]

I´ve kept my eggs in the fridge for years - until I was explained I should not. The result is that now I never can find them.

Back to ammonia - you could be right, we just talk about nitrite while there is still some ammonia.

[torusle]

I think Daniels tip was really good:

I did 50% changes in the morning and in the evening. Otherwise I tried to keep the stress level to a minimum by not messing with the temporary tanks.

Oh, and I just fed them twice. Hungry fish, but little chance for the nitrite and ammonia to build up.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

It may be odd, but I never ever read about problems with ammonia in Europe, before I went on the internet............

I never read about such a tank before, and thinking `a fish excretes ammonia, which is relatively fast turned into nitrite, which in its turn is turned into nitrate, but this latter process is rather slow` the explanation is that the standard European tank contains few enaough fishes to have the produced ammonia turned into nitrite, with only a small amount of bacteria, very close to the natural amount

If you keep, say, 5 times the amount of fish in the same tank, the produced ammonia will incvrease fivefold, and be too mch for a standard population. That is, the bacteria population will have to grow first, before the system starts working.....

I think the difference isn't particularly between languages, but in the approach to fish keeping.

I think Europeans are probably more likely to keep planted tanks, and more likely to have a substrate and to be less reliant on a single canister filter for biological filtration. Biological filtration in filters like trickle filters, HMFs and HOBs is much less likely to be compromised by lack of oxygen than in a canister filter.

There are inherent dangers in having a canister filter as your "single point of failure", and particularly if you aim to have simultaneous aerobic nitrification and anaerobic denitrification in the same filter.

Another point is that recent advances in the identification of nitrifying organisms has shown that the species assemblages you get under high ammonia loadings are different from those you get in less polluted, more natural, situations, so it may take more time for these specialised "high ammonia" assemblages to develop.

A further issue may be tap water quality, in the EU it is fairly tightly regulated, where as in the USA it can be a lot more variable.

cheers Darrel

[Lycosid]

A further issue may be tap water quality, in the EU it is fairly tightly regulated, where as in the USA it can be a lot more variable.

No kidding! The tap water that comes out of the sink in my lab is so high in nitrites that I can't use it for fish. (The sink twenty feet away through a wall is fine....which is really strange, and more than a bit concerning.)

[dw1305]

Hi all,

No kidding! The tap water that comes out of the sink in my lab is so high in nitrites that I can't use it for fish. (The sink twenty feet away through a wall is fine....which is really strange, and more than a bit concerning.)

I was looking for Shane's Potomac river thread.

I couldn't find it the other day, but I just have. It was this one <"Expert maybe not": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45762&p=309633&hili ... ac#p309633>.

It may be a jaundiced view, but I expect the UK's water quality regulation (both for potable water and the environmental standards for waste water discharge) to be watered down post-Brexit.

cheers Darrel