L397 fry update....

[gehandylan]

The 35, L397 fry are doing well.
They have colored up real nice and putting on weight fast

[syno321]

Great update! How do you the Ziss for raising them?

[gehandylan]

@syno321

I tumble the eggs in a Ziss Egg tumbler until about 75% of the yolk sack is absorbed. Thereafter, I move the wigglers into a Ziss fry box with an IAL. There is an air stone attached to the fry box. I start feeding them with Hikari First Bite, 2 days after the yolk sack is fully absorbed. After a week, I give them crushed veggie flakes. I hope to split the group into 3 fry boxes tomorrow as it is getting a bit crowded in there. They;d go into a grow-out tank in another 3 weeks or so.

Trust the above answers your question.

[syno321]

Yes thanks. When do you take the eggs from the male's cave?

[gehandylan]

@syno321 - I noticed 4 wigglers with yolk sacks in a corner of the breeding tank. I took the cave with dad and tipped it into a bowl with water. The rest of the L397 wigglers just popped out.

[TwoTankAmin]

I do not understand the reason for regularly removing eggs from pleco dads and then tumbling them and raising them in a small box for a while. The only reason I ever pull fry is because a specific tank is simply not fry friendly for some reason. Otherwise I always allow dads to raise the fry and then for nature to determine which are strong enough to survive from there. Of course I feed well and do regular maintenance. I have also observed that offspring usually grow faster in the breeding tank than in a growout tank. I also believe that dads can do a much better job than I can raising the babies to free swimming. Moreover, this is a learning process. New dads may lose eggs/wigglers due to inexperience early on, but most learn pretty fast.

So I am wondering exactly why some people follow the practice described in this thread. What are the advantages to doing things this way over not doing so? Why is it less "good" to do things without a tumbler and fry holder?

[Brian2014]

I have got to say i am 100% with you on this TwoTankAmin all my fry are left with the adults unless there is a known problem. i think it is just a thing a fad that makes people feel more professional.( just my opinion)

[Jobro]

Well, not a single L260 fry ever managed to grow up in their parents tank for me. They make it through the first 3-4 weeks and then they famish and disappear. Even though I feed plenty and the parents are all a little on the fat side. With the fry save I usually don't lose a single fish.

L183 fry somehow manage to survive but some end up growing awfully slow and sometimes stop growing at all. I got a fish that is actually almost a year old and is about 3.5cm TL... When I raise them in a breeder they grow more constant and way faster.

On the other hand, some H. Contradens managed to escape my fry saver in a very young stage and they grew almost as fast as the ones I raised in the saver. The "naturally" grown ones tend to be more slender though.

As you can see it depends a lot on the individual species.

I just don't like having stunted fish, that is why I usually remove the fry a few days after hatching to make sure they are supplied with plenty of foods and grow well.

[gehandylan]

@TwoTankAmin, @Brian 2014

I am not a 'professional' pleco keeper like some of you. Just a newbie having acquired my first Pleco about 18 months ago. However, I am a 'professional' at tumbling eggs having kept difficult Tanganyikan fish like Tropheus, Petrochromis and Cyprichromis for many years. Tumbling Tanganyikan eggs in an aquarium environment is sometimes a necessity for many reasons. It has not been easy for me to shed this 'unnatural' habit of tumbling eggs. One can argue that keeping plecos in a 40G tank is as unnatural as tumbling their eggs.

I am very glad that letting the pleco dads raise the young has worked very well for some of you. I have hatched over 100 L46 fry, 35 L397 fry, many L134, and L340 fry during my very short pleco career. So, I can safely say that this method has worked well for this inexperienced newbie. Each to their own they say!

I was merely responding to a question asked by another member, not advocating the tumbling of Pleco eggs. This post is about providing an update of my first L397 spawn and sharing that joy. Not a debate about what to do with Pleco eggs!

[syno321]

Well said gehandylan!

[TwoTankAmin]

I am sorry if my asking about egg tumbling derailed your reported success with your fish. They look healthy as heck. That was not my intent. I was trying to learn something as I have no experience at all with using an egg tumbler. One of the things that drew me towards spawning plecos was that they did all the work.

It appears to me from your answer that this is really more of species or situation specific necessity, rather than a "universal" type practice. Also, I am not a professional, I am a hobbyist who does this for the joy of it and because I love the black and white Hypans.

[gehandylan]

Pic taken on Feb 7, 2018

[bekateen]

Very nice. They are so colorful at that age.

[Jobro]

They are colorfull at all ages

Got myself 3 new specimen, hope I can show some fry soon, too.

[bekateen]

Got myself 3 new specimen, hope I can show some fry soon, too.

Wow that fish looks great! Doesn't quite look like L397, but it looks great.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

I was quite amazed to see a fish as red as that, too. The other two are more brownish. But they all have the L397 patterning on the face. What else could it be?

This is one of it's siblings.

[bekateen]

Overall looks right for L397, but I'm struck by the boldness and sharpness of the contrast between the orange and black areas. On my adults, by the time they got that large, they looked much more diffuse in their color boundaries on the body; the face still looks the same.

On my adult fish, the fins are the only body parts that retain the white banding between stripes of black and orange. If you can still see those on the dorsal fin or pectorals/pelvics, then I'd still say L397.

[gehandylan]

@Jobro, @bekateen

The squiggly facial markings are right for a L397. I took the liberty of magnifying the tail of Jobro's adult fish and you can see the characteristic white band (albeit a bit faint) of the L397 in it. See pic attached.

I have to admit that the red in Jobro's L397 is very striking.

[bekateen]

Thanks @gehan.

Cheers, Eric

[gehandylan]

Thanks for the kind words earlier @ bekateen

[Fundulopanchax76]

The color of the fish very oftenly depends from food. If Jobro feeds them with rich of carotens food that could explain bright orange - red color.

[Jobro]

But it is only one fish that is very reddish. They all eat the same and came form the same source. 4 Years old from what I was told.

[gehandylan]

Top view of one of my L397 adults .....

[Jobro]

Mine look a little like this during night, but they are all colorful during day.

I opened a different Thread in order to not derail this one too much.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 13&t=45991

[gehandylan]

Pic taken on Feb

[bekateen]

Beautiful!

[gehandylan]

@ bekateen

Thanks. They are growing by the day on Ebo Aquaristik Spirulina Paste and Youngster Grow.

Ebo food is new to North America but very popular among European Pleco Keepers. I also use their adult food for my Plecos.

Gold Coast Aquatics in NY brings the Ebo products and can be contacted via Facebook.

[b.reder]

Wow. “I have hatched over 100 L46 fry, 35 L397 fry, many L134, and L340 fry during my very short pleco career.” Makes me look like a dummy.... 18 months and nothing

[gehandylan]

@b.reder

I guess I got lucky with the the adult groups I purchased. Also got a lot of support and advice from many expert members. Here's what an expert breeder shared with me ...

Good stock + excellent water quality + good food + patience + enjoy your fish = spawns

I find that plecos usually spawn when you stop trying too hard. It will happen when they are good and ready and not when you want them to.

Good luck.

[b.reder]

gehandylan- Thanks for the advice. -Barry