Anyone been stung by a venomous catfish?

[THQ]

Hi, I'm thinking of getting a "salmon catfish" from my LFS (I live in Australia). I believe these are neoarius species eg., berneyi. Doing some research on them, it appears their dorsal spin is venomous and inflicts "excruciatingly painful wounds". Apparently the best analgesia is hot water. I've read horror stories of some people fainting from the pain and requiring minor surgery to extricate the barbed, embedded spine.

I stick my arm into my 6x2x2 tank without a moment's hesitation and move the decor around and gravel clean almost every other day. My SA cichlids don't and can't do much to me at all. But I am a bit wary of introducing something like this that has the potential to basically put me out of action and work temporarily.

Anyone has any experience with catfish stings? Or are they so rare that I shouldn't worry about it as long as I don't go catching the fish with my bare hands?

Cheers.

[Melander]

I know it's not in the same league but I have been stung by Corydoras which was like an insect bite.

Not nice but it certainly did not keep me from going to work.

Andreas

[pleconut]

There's quite a few that when you're pricked, usually by the pectoral or dorsal spines cause it to hurt sometimes for quite some time, but I'm not sure which ones are toxic to us. I think there's several that can cause cardiac problems. So anyone being stung or keeping these fish should exercise caution if they have heart conditions. If you go to the top left hand corner press the frequently asked questions tab I think there's some info there. I've been pricked by a cory, didn't hurt for long, but other catfish stings can hurt for a good few hours.

[shrimpkeeper222]

Been pricked by corydoras, but as others said not in the same league. And also, Ive seen some people stabbed by some nasty native catfish spines(Liobagrus.sp) while fishing! The genera Liobagrus is definitely an interesting genera-on my wish list in fact. Well it got a bit too interesting for the man who was stung though. It got swollen and he did look like he was in a lot of pain. Ow! (or should I say me-ow, becuz its a catfish(geddit meow) )

[anna*]

I've been stabbed by the pectoral spine of a foot long pangasius, that wasn't pleasant! It throbbed for a few hours and I had a lump for about a week, but no lasting damage.

[catfishchaos]

Ive been stung by

Synodontis nigriventris

,

Synodontis eupterus

, Corydoras sp and my brother was very severely by a

Ariopsis felis

.

The Corydoras was more like a thumbtack, not really sure if I would call it a sting.

The Synodontis got me good while I was transferring a few into a styro, very unpleasant throbbing and burning pain for about an hour or two and heightened sensitivity the following day but no swelling or pins and needles.

The

Ariopsis felis

was by far the worst I have ever seen, My brother caught one in florida 6-7 years ago (so we were pretty young) and not knowing about the spikes tossed it to a heron who wisely refused it. My brother went back and kicked it into the ocean, he then went into shock... The dorsal spine was stopped by the bone of his foot and left a nasty gash. The venom had him in tears and caused hi to fade in and out of conciseness my mother and grandmother cleaned and dressed the wound. He was unable to put any pressure on it for three days and after that continued to limp for about a week. needless to say he doesn't really care for

Ariopsis felis

and I have been unhooking them for him ever since.

So don't kick it, grab it, Hi-five it and you should be fine be careful when netting it (best to not use a net at all and just use a container) as this is where the grand majority of stings happen. If your nervous about it put a piece of PVC with a cap on one end, wait for him to enter and then trap him in there while you clean the tank then proceed as normal until you are done, at this time I highly recommend you let him out ;)

[anna*]

Instant karma for kicking a fish!

[naturalart]

Stung in the finger by my S. shoutedeni many years ago. Minor ache, but permanent memory.

[Wyomingite]

I’ve been stung by cories several times over the years, which hurt for a bit and then itched for a couple days like a mosquito bite. Stung by a

Pimelodus pictus

once, which was a little worse. For the most part, I suspect most species that hobbyists have access to won’t be too much of a threat unless the individual stung has extenuating health circumstances such as allergies, COPD/asthma, a heart problem or other circulatory problems, an immunodeficiency disorder or is taking an extended medication regiment. Severe consequences are still not probable, but are possible and need to be considered.

Secondary infection should be more of a concern. In late February or early March of 2014, I stuck a splinter from a piece of driftwood into the cuticle on my left thumb. Let it bleed out, cleaned it real well, and thought all was good. A few days later the skin around the nail got all red, and a few days later it started to break out in blisters. After a week I started getting bumps up my arm and all of my veins in my arm started turning pink, then an angry red. After two weeks I went to the doc, who said I had an infection and gave me some antibiotics, which didn’t work. My thumbnail started to fall off, and two weeks after that I went back to the doc, because the antibiotics weren’t working, I’d lost 80% of my thumbnail and I had bumps from the size of a pencil eraser to almost the size of a dime up to my elbow. My arm looked a lot like the lady’s in this link: http://www.consultantlive.com/articles/ ... -old-woman. I had about three times as many bumps (the medical term is pustules) on my arm and I could trace the veins in my arm because they had become so red. The pustules hurt when bumped and itched constantly. I also had a constant, slight fever in my forearm. I was referred to a dermatologist.

I went and saw him a week later. After introductions and a hand shake, he looked at my left arm and said, “You have aquariums, don’t you.” It was a statement rather than a question. He said I had a Mycobacterium marinum infection, a.k.a. aquarium or fish tank granuloma. He said it’s far more common than generally advertised, he sees 15-20 cases a year in a city of around 70,000 people. I said I couldn’t believe that, as my tanks were very well maintained. He said it didn’t matter, the bacteria is everywhere. Poor maintenance only increases the chance of infection. I went on a super antibiotic for several weeks, and in July of 2014 I had to have the last pustule, about the size of a U.S. dime, surgically removed because the bacteria had encysted in my thumb and the antibiotics couldn’t reach them. Today, I’m still missing 15-20% of my thumb nail, and the skin where the nail hasn’t grown back constantly cracks and builds up and hurts. My nail grows strangely and splits constantly. See the attached pic.



So far I’ve been comparing apples and oranges, a splinter to a fish spine, but a few months after this I was talking to a guy at a Rocky Mountain Cichlid Association meeting and he had been through something similar. His infection occurred after he’d been stuck by the dorsal spine of a cichlid, so now we’re talking apples to apples.

Kind of a long post, but hopefully I can prevent somebody from going through what I did just by a bit of education.

Ivan

[bekateen]

Secondary infection should be more of a concern...

I went and saw [the dermatologist] a week later. After introductions and a hand shake, he looked at my left arm and said, “You have aquariums, don’t you.” It was a statement rather than a question. He said I had a Mycobacterium marinum infection, a.k.a. aquarium or fish tank granuloma. He said it’s far more common than generally advertised, he sees 15-20 cases a year in a city of around 70,000 people. I said I couldn’t believe that, as my tanks were very well maintained. He said it didn’t matter, the bacteria is everywhere. Poor maintenance only increases the chance of infection.

Gross, but interesting. You'd also appreciate this old thread: Human skin infection caused by keeping tropical fish aquaria. Say it ain't so!

Cheers, Eric

[Wyomingite]

Thanks, Eric. Interesting thread, especially the part about it possibly being more prevalent in certain locales. At that time I'd been keeping fish for 31 years and had never dreamed I'd ever get it, though I'd read and heard about it, and had seen pics. More than a bit of the "it can't happen to me" syndrome kept me thinking it was something else.

BTW, I'm sure as heck not trying to scare anybody away from the hobby or trying to be an alarmist. Nothing's going to keep me from my tanks. Nor am I implying it's common. But this was truly a miserable experience.

[Bas Pels]

I would just say - the best way to keep fish is often by keeping jour hands dry

It will provide less stress for your fishes, and if something is wrong, you will not get anythig from your tank.

Now I know it is impossible to keep fishes without having your hand in the water every now and then, but we could try and do it as little as posssible. I got tanks I don't enter with my hands for months

[Pinkpleco]

Pond gloves are a wonderful tool. Although I doubt they'd stop a big catfish spine!

[Wyomingite]

...Now I know it is impossible to keep fishes without having your hand in the water every now and then, but we could try and do it as little as posssible. I got tanks I don't enter with my hands for months

Pond gloves are a wonderful tool. Although I doubt they'd stop a big catfish spine!

Can't argue in theory. Good points, both. I have tanks that I haven't put my hands in for months as well. I suspect folks raising mouth-brooding cichlids probably end up with their hands in tanks more than most. Difficult to strip the fry from a female without getting your hands wet. And kind of hard to do in gloves as well, they inhibit manual dexterity. ;)

Anyways, not to hijack the thread. Reducing the risk of getting stung is inarguably the best prevention, but it never hurts to understand the potential consequences if the worst happens.

Ivan

[naturalart]

Thanks for the post Wyomingite. Very good information. Many years ago I was in a doctors office for a hand injury. In the process of healing and doctor visits, I tended some of my aquaria. The maintenance doctor ran a test and came back into the room with a worried look, and said I had something like a 'nitraso- or psueda- monus' infection. Its been a while so I can't remember clearly, maybe someone here knows. Long-story-short; I went through a whole course of 2 strong antibiotic treatments. I came out of it fine but the alarm people had was memorable. Lesson learned: don't work on your tanks while your in treatment for anything having to do with your hands or skin.

[Wyomingite]

Pseudomonas, possibly. Pseudomonas aeruginosa is nasty, acts just like you described and is common in water, damp soil, and perpetually damp/wet areas in buildings. It was actually what I was thinking about in my original post when referencing chronic health issues. This one can cause infection in the heart, lungs, kidneys or other organ system and be fatal, especially if there is already a pre-existing condition. More infections are caused by poorly kept pools, hot tubs, or locker rooms at gyms than aquariums, though.