Amaralia hypsiura stocking...

[catfishchaos]

Hello everyone

I have finally found somebody who can order these fish and now Im a little stimped about the stocking levels... The tank I'm planning on getting is very close to 20 gallon (I thinks 22.5 or closer) And it has a foot print of 23.6 inches long by 17.7 inches wide. Just not sure how to stock these banjos.

Also just wondering if need to quarantine them since they are all coming from the same place and are going into a species tank.

Regards
James

[bekateen]

I've not had this sp., but from its CLOG, it sounds very similar to the

Bunocephalus coracoideus

in terms of habitat usage (burrowing in substrate; emerging to feed). The CLOG provides no info on temperament, but if it's peaceful like coracoideus, I'd think you could easily fit 4-5 adults in a (slightly crowded) species-only 22 gal tank. I've got either 6 or 7 adult coracoideus in a 36 gal, which is 30"L by 13"W (avg width; it's a bowfront, so wider in middle and narrower at sides). My coracoideus literally sit on top of each other sometimes without caring; and they spawn a few times per year, so I assume they're healthy and happy. If your sp. is peaceful, I don't think 4-5 adults will cause a crowding will be an issue. Your real issue, should you stock it that full, would be dealing with the waste and water quality.

Concerning the quarantine issue, IMHO if the fish are all purchased from the same place and at the same time, and if they are all going into the same tank eventually, and if that tank currently has no other fish in it, then why can't that tank also serve as their quarantine? (you might remove some decorations or any live plants until after your quarantine period is over, in case you need to treat them with meds - perhaps start with a sandy substrate and some hiding places that can be easily cleaned afterward in case any disease appears).

There aren't a lot of registered keepers of hypsiura, but maybe one of them can comment on temperament and stocking issues.

Good luck, Eric

[Richard B]

See if Wrasse comments as he has had them - some suffer on import & are finicky feeders, others seem to do ok

[KungFish]

Amiidae has had them as well.

If it were me, I'd have 3 in that size tank. They are a bit bigger and much thicker than normal coracoideus, as you probably know.

In nature they eat a large amount of fish eggs, so they might like pellets because of the round shape. Amiidae's 2 amaralia went crazy for what looked like chopped shrimp in one of his youtube videos.

[bekateen]

They are a bit bigger and much thicker than normal coracoideus, as you probably know.

I can see from the photos that hypsiura is a thicker fish that coracoideus, but bigger overall? In the CLOGs, adult SL hypsiura are said to reach 4.7 inches and coracoideus 5.9 inches. And adult coracoideus can get pretty stout (check out the photo of a female on the CLOG, and see also one of my females (and she isn't yet full grown). As they mature, the females can get quite big. I don't wish to argue, but from the data in the CLOGs, I wouldn't expect much difference in size.

[KungFish]

Okay. Until now, I've never seen a coracoideus larger than 4 inches. However, the one time i've seen a hypisura it was nearly 6 inches long. Of course, that is just an estimate, as it was curled up. It could've been shorter. I guess I've been corrected.

[catfishchaos]

Thanks for the replies guys! I have seen many of amiidae's videos (including the banjo one for hours lol).

For Filtration I plan on using the Fluval 206 external canister filter (206 gph) and I plan on having very few plants in the tank in general, The hardscape will consist of some branches and ADA Yamaya stone (going for a kind of barren river theme). I plan on only having 3-4 individuals int that case as I would hate to make them feel overcrowded. I think its better to have less happy fish than to have a lot of stressed ones.

Thanks for all the help!

[Martin S]

And adult coracoideus can get pretty stout (check out the photo of a female on the CLOG, and see also one of my females (and she isn't yet full grown).

Is it just me that thinks neither of the fish in these images look like the 'regular'

Bunocephalus coracoideus

? The pectoral fins look too short/stumpy in the first link, and the female much stockier overall than any I've ever seen, though to be fair, I've never seen one above ~3".
Martin

[Richard B]

Isn't the egg eating information a bit of a myth?

[bekateen]

Is it just me that thinks neither of the fish in these images look like the 'regular'

Bunocephalus coracoideus

? The pectoral fins look too short/stumpy in the first link, and the female much stockier overall than any I've ever seen, though to be fair, I've never seen one above ~3".

No, it's not just you; lately I've been wondering the same thing. Honestly, my banjos were sold as coracoideus, but when I bought them I didn't know the difference. And since they spend so much time buried, I haven't really noticed until they really grew out. After last week's refreshing of an old thread about "which fish are you keeping?," I started to wonder about the I.D. of mine. Soon I'll dig them out and check.

Apologies to the O.P. for getting off topic.
Cheers, Eric

[dpm1]

Isn't the egg eating information a bit of a myth?

Apparently not, although wether its likely to be more than opportunistic is possibly still open to debate as it seems very restrictive.

"Friel (1992) presents evidence for oophagy within Amaralia based on examination of the stomach contents of 23 specimens (17 A. hypsiura & 6 A. "oviraptor"). Seven individuals had masses of eggs such as those llustrated below. The eggs are similar in appearance to those of loricariid catfishes and in one case ingested embryos could be positively identified as loricariids. The other 16 specimens had empty stomachs. This is in striking contrast to the stomachs of other aspredinids which always contained at least some detritus and invertebrates (aquatic insect larve and terrestial insects)."

So the only food found was eggs!

Pictorial evidence: http://tolweb.org/Amaralia/15258


Note: This was wild specimens and individuals in tanks have been recorded as ignoring eggs and feeding off other food as noted here:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... hp?t=33634

[catfishchaos]

Well know all I want to know is why a picture of Amaralia "oviraptor" is in the CLOG as Amaralia hypsuira "Dorsal view"?

[Marc van Arc]

Well now all I want to know is why a picture of Amaralia "oviraptor" is in the CLOG as Amaralia hypsuira "Dorsal view"?

That's because "oviraptor" is not (yet) regarded as a valid species by ichthyologists. For the time being Amaralia is considered monotypic (= consisting of one species).
In case this species will be validated, it will get its own page.

[catfishchaos]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[bekateen]

Questioning this clarification: According to the credits on the TOLWEB page referenced above (and on other websites), this photo is specifically Amaralia hypsiura, not Amaralia 'oviraptor.' The top of the TOLWEB page lists both spp. in the genus, and a representative photo, but the bottom of the page shows the photo again and clarifies to which particular sp. it belongs.

No offense intended. Cheers, Eric

[Marc van Arc]

I assumed that Friel , who did his study in 1992*, took a picture of his "new" species. That could still well be the case, but I do not know that for sure. I could be wrong there, no problem.
I merely wanted to point out that "oviraptor" is still undescribed (hence its name in quotes) and that the sites I use do not even mention any other Amaralia species. Catalog of Fishes, FishBase and Checklist of Catfishes list no other species than A. hypsiura. Given the fact that the study was 23 years ago, I really doubt if this "oviraptor" species will ever become valid.
However, in case it may eventually turn out to be a valid species, it will have its own data sheet in the Clog.

A clarifying remark wrt the "new" species' name: Amaralia hypsiura is known to eat eggs from other fishes and "Oviraptor" means egg thief.

No offence taken.

* according to TOLweb, although on the same page 1994 is mentioned as well. That is likely the year he published his paper.

[catfishchaos]

So just to be clear, a group of 3-4 in a tank with that footprint should be ok?

Regards
James

[bekateen]

I think so. As I said above, as long as I could see that they are peaceful like other banjos, I'd go to 4 if they were mine. So far, no one with personal experience has commented on their temperament, so you'll just have to use your judgment. Enjoy your fish when you get them! And post pictures!
Cheers, Eric

[amiidae]

4 shld be ok in 2ft tank as they typically sit around till feeding time.

Personally I think the do better with small-sized smooth gravel. I think sand may be alittle hard for them to go under once the sand bed is settled.

Mine took close to a month before started feeding on frozen blood worm but my friend's started much earlier. I guess it depends on the condition of the fish.

[catfishchaos]

Ok I know I am bringing up a bit of a fossil here and Hope you all brought your history books!

Long story short the breeder said never because

Amaralia hypsiura

is not an attractive fish but he has some in stock now so... The 30 gallon has been designated to a group of

Loricaria sp`rio_atabapo`

but I have an 8.5 gallon and would like to keep at least a single fish (maybe a pair but its a small tank). Decor in the tank is Drift wood and river pebbles (I went a little crazy with the scape because it was for some corydoras but that didn't pan out) and the back is planted with dirt substrate however the remaining half of the tank is sand and I plan on putting more river sones near the planted area to keep them from excavating. Amiidae It's an honour to have had you involved in this, I was originally inspired to keep this fish after coming across your feeding video of them!

Here is a pic, sand is abotu 2-3 cm deep


Ps: sooner you all reply the better! trying to get the order in by the end of this week!

[catfishchaos]

Ok so the importer say they are only 3 inches at the moment so I'll get them and as they grow I will upgrade to 16 gallon for them but I feel like they have a growth rate similar to rocks...

I'll be sure to post pictures once I get them (but I think I'll be making another thread for that.)

[amiidae]

Just an update to my earlier post.

I tried keeping 3 A. hypsiura with sand bottom and they seem fine.
Here is the tank shot with all the 3 amigos hiding under the sand.

[catfishchaos]

Hi Amiidae!

Looks like an awesome setup! Have you noticed any behavioural changes since you switched to sand from pebbles?

[amiidae]

Thanks.

Pretty much the same. The sand is abt 1/2 to 3/4inch thick.