Salt vs Cory

[Waldo]

I'd really like to hear some of your thoughts on salt and cory's. I've heard some avid enthusiasts say that salt is harmful to the cory, while some others say that it doesn't explaining further that it is when salt is deposited directly. It's not the salt but the brine on the bottom while the fish swim through it cory's being on the bottom are more prone to the burn caused by salt brining.

[MatsP]

Salt (as in Sodium or Potassium chloride or "natural sea-salt") is definitely not part of the natural habitat for 99.9% of all corys (I'm saying 99.9% because I'm sure Ian or someone else with more knowledge will come up with a Cory that lives at the edge of a river that has a small amount of brackishness if I were to say 100% ).

The usage of salt as a "regular" feature in freshwater tanks isn't what I'd recommend. Salt as a medication for short terms when salt is known to improve the health for whatever ailment it's used against, that's fine. It's the same as taking headache pills when you have a headache. But unless your doctor prescribes headache pills, you wouldn't take them every day.

As far as I understand, Corys are (generally) pretty tolerant, and will tolerate some salt in the water.

--
Mats

[Mars]

I always thought that Cory's didn't tolerate salt in the water (why should they, there is no salt in there natural habitat). But I heard from a forummember that he uses salt in his tank all the time and it doesn't seem to harm them. So I think that most species do tolerate salt.

However I'm not going to try it, because it doesn't seem te be necessary in my tank (I've not had any diseases or deaths in this tank for 2 years now). But I'm really interested in long-term effects of adding salt to the water, allthough I know that it is difficult to research.

[Mike_Noren]

FWIW: I had a Corydoras paleatus which over a period of time became progressively more ill. It grew poorly, eventually it lost equilibrium and basically thrashed about helplessly. I was sure it was a gonner. The only empty tank I had was a brackish water tank with 4 ppt salinity - and to separate it from the other cories I moved it there. I was convinced it wouldn't survive the night.

To my amazement it not only survived, but recovered. After a week it seemed completely healthy, but spent another six months in that brackish water tank before I returned it to the group.

In my opinion the "cories can't handle salt" thing is a myth.

[MatsP]

Mike,

Thanks for your empirical evidence.

Salt (as in natural sea-salt or sodium chloride) will not be dramatically different to some of the other minerals and ions found in natural water in the Amazon. Corys can survive high hardness levels when they get trapped in a puddle - they have developed to breathe atmospheric oxygen for the reason that they get trapped in small ponds that can dry out to a muddy puddle if they are trapped for long in a small confined space. So there's no doubt they will tolerate quite a lot.

It is also clear that salt in different forms have medicinal effects on the fish. It will definitely cure some parasitic illnesses, and it also helps the oxygen uptake of the fish.

I still think that permanent addition of salt to a Cory tank is wrong...

--
Mats

[Waldo]

From the wild we've noticed fish can take hypersalinity very well. Acriflavin and Salt have been great tools in keeping fish healthy during long trips from the rivers to our facilities. I generally dose our tanks with salt for holding at the dose recomended. I've yet to be really concerned with parameters kH, pH GH... what have you. Seems salt is just another thing they adjust to.

[Coryman]

From what I gather the myth started with the fact that a lot of the naked catfishes were intolerant of salt and it very soon expanded to encompass all catfish.

Corys are pretty much OK with salt in low levels and if regular water changes are made there should be no excess build up.

Ian

[Corycory]

I am bringing up an old thread here.

I recently had to treat a tank with salt for the first time because of ich a new clown loach brought.....or so I thought... because I never saw a white spot.

Panda corys at salt concentration of 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water will die a miserable death I found out. So be careful guys. I presume different species deal with salt differently.
None of my other fish were even close to being stressed just the cory.
And I am not even sure the clown loach had ich in the first place because he just flashed twice and I jumped into conclusions.....in case someone thinks the cory died of ich...It didn't. The salt absolutely destroyed a healthy cory.

I will never chance salt with any of my corys again, no matter the concentration.

The cory didn't die outright. It lasted a week before it gave up and floated to the surface on its side. I couldn't save it at that stage.

[jodilynn]

Hmmm...I am a bit concerned as I brought home 4 really neat corys of different species from the local big-box store (please don't preach, as far as I am concerned I saved them! ). There were a few mollies in the tank that were showing signs of ick. Of course they are in quarantine. I am treating with Pimafix (some of the corys don't have barbels ) and I put in a half dose of salt (I tablespoon for 10 gallons instead of two).

I am planning on quarantining them as long as needed, so I am positive they don't have ick and until their whiskers come back. Their fins are up and thy seem to be eating well.

But I am worried about the salt ?

[Corycory]

Yes, the cory was fine at a certain salt concentration. That's about how much I can tell from my experience however the balance is thin so I would use caution and if you see the corys staying still, not eating, breathing difficulties, not moving much I'd jump and do a water change and gradually take the salt out.
If you ask me, don't even keep them in salt for more than a week and don't go near 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons and I wouldn't be sure a lower dose would be ok short term, it may, it may not. I see some people claim they are. I am not going to find out for myself. It's possible it also depends on species of corys.

I was increasing the salt gradually over the course of about 4 days to a max of one tablespoon per 5 gallons, on the thin side, very flat spoons of salt I might note. The cory did fine at the start and didn't show any signs of stress. That made me relaxed and I kind of stopped paying that much attention to it as I was focused on the baby clown loach.

Then a couple of days later after the full salt dosage I noticed it was having difficulty staying on the substrate, a few minutes later it was floating on it's side on the surface. It took it another couple of days to die in another tank. This cory was very healthy to start with, it had no health issues prior.

[jodilynn]

They are very active, eating 2-3 times a day (I am spoiling them), fins up, they seem to be doing alright.

I think I have

Corydoras agassizii

,

Corydoras sodalis

,

Corydoras ambiacus

and the fourth (who is really striking) may be

Cw099

I have been adding the Pimafix, I have 4 more days of treatment, then I will do a large water change. No salt after that, I am considering taking a break for a few days and then possibly doing a course of Melafix. I am just concerned because they came from such crappy circumstances and the one is definitely missing most of it's barbels, the others don't look like their barbels are in good condition.

I am hoping good food, clean water, and moderate medications helps them.

I will keep everyone updated so people can have more information about salt and Corys.

[bekateen]

I brought home 4 really neat corys of different species from the local big-box store

I think I have

Corydoras agassizii

,

Corydoras sodalis

,

Corydoras ambiacus

and the fourth (who is really striking) may be Corydoras sp. (

Cw099

)

Hi Jodilynn,

First of all, good luck with the medication/therapy. You always go out of your way to help these fish get healthy and do well.

Now onto your fish: Are you sure they represent so many different spp? Did you buy them all out of the same tank at the store? I ask because in my experience with big box stores, (1) these stores rarely get such a nice variety of fishes at once, and (2) when I inquire about the source of the fishes, I'm told they are captive bred for the store chain (which makes sense, given the number of fishes they would need to supply to all of their chain store locations). If your big box store operates the same as the stores around me, I'd expect that it's unlikely they're selling many wild-caught fish, and that if the fish are captive bred, they'd all be progeny of the same species.

I don't wish to hijack this thread, so if you'd like to pursue this ID conversation further, maybe you could start a new thread with photos, and some of the experts could give you confirmation of IDs? If not, that's fine.

Cheers, Eric

P.S., No preaching and no judgment needed: Neat fish are neat fish, no matter where they come from. They just might require more care to give them a good start in your home tank.

[apistomaster]

I've never observed any obvious problems among a variety of Corydoras species when they have happened to be in circumstances where salt in the water may help with healing raw skin or fin tissue injuries or disease. I haven't had any reason to treat any C.panda in salty water.
I have only used salt as part of some treatment.
I would never recommend adding salt routinely for any typically soft water fishes.

[jodilynn]

Now onto your fish: Are you sure they represent so many different spp?

I have noticed Meijer will often get, um, "leftovers"? Like they will get random bunches of corys in and sell them simply as "large corydoras". It's almost like they get them from wholesalers that don't have enough quantities left to ship large numbers of individual species so whatever random single indivduals are left seem to show up in their tanks. I see it quite a bit at all the stores in my area actually (There are about 5-6 that I am at regularly).

They are DEFINATELY not the same fish. That is why I was so hellbent on getting them! There have been other fish that I noticed were unusual but somebody else snatched them up before I could get back to get them.

I believe somebody else posted about getting corys at Meijer here in Michigan?

I will attempt to photograph them and put them up for discussion.

Sorry for taking over the thread!

[jodilynn]

I will tell you that I had some tetras come down with what looked like Dropsy a few years ago and the LFS recommended using Epsom Salt to cure them. It was a very gradual dosing process, like 1/4 tsp. then 1/2 then 1 tsp. etc. I don't think I got through the 2nd dose and my

Corydoras aeneus

started having almost what I would consider to be seizures, mad dashing around the tank, rapid surfacing, crashing into objects in the tank, violent flashing against the gravel, etc. I immediately did a huge water change and the fish almost immediately recovered (still have "Scrappy" today). Interestingly enough, the

Corydoras melini

I had at the time was completely unaffected by the Epsom Salt!

SO, in regards to the Panda Cory dying, do you think maybe some species are just that much more sensitive to salt, Epsom or oceanic?

I have a little Panda Cory in my top 10 gallon and based on this I will NEVER treat that tank with salt because I would hate to lose the little guy.

[jodilynn]

I just found the

Corydoras agassizii

trapped in the sponge filter he was wedged in grooves on the side and his pectorals were completely piercing the sponge and I could not get him out. It took me about 5 minutes but I freed it finally he looks okay color and respiration normal a little stunned (I have no idea how long he was like that ).

Unbelievable! When my Midnights and Bumblebees were in the quarantine tank they always hung out in those grooves. Maybe the cory was just chubbier ?

[Corycory]

SO, in regards to the Panda Cory dying, do you think maybe some species are just that much more sensitive to salt, Epsom or oceanic?

Epsom salt is different. It's magnesium sulphate. Small amounts as for plants sake is perfectly fine and it gets used up not just by the plants but by various chemical processes in the tank. Obviously my tap water has some too. In high doses, it will change the stats of the water so I'd presume it will have a negative effect on certain fish, especially if bumped fast.

I am not able to tell you about normal salt on different cory species because I never put salt in any other tank with my corys. Panda is certainly not one of those that tolerate salt. Judging by some comments on this forum others have had success with other species. Personally, I am not chancing it anymore and the reason I did was because I read it's ok for shorter periods of time and I needed to use salt as that's the least dangerous on clown loaches. And the clown loach is clear and all happy.

I've never observed any obvious problems among a variety of Corydoras species when they have happened to be in circumstances where salt in the water may help with healing raw skin or fin tissue injuries or disease.

The cory was fine the first few days in a lower dose of salt. I presume it was under stress but it wasn't so obvious until it was too late. Maybe it would have survived if the salt dose was very low as what one would use in healing fins but all I've used in healing fins is just fresh water and I've rarely had any fin issues except for one time when a cory appeared with a broken dorsal fin. I did nothing. The broken part fell off and and the fin regrew. Another one was a cory I bought with already damaged/eaten fins, it recovered with nothing at all. I avoid putting anything in the tanks whatsoever unless it's for survival.

[Akasha]

Hi, I've just been linked to this thread from another forum as I was asking similar questions to this. I've been aware of the 'rule' of cories not tolerating salt for many years and I've never allowed any of my cories to come into contact with it at all.
Recently though of my peppered females damaged her tail (I think she hit my tank central support bar when darting up for air) and I've been treating her with Melafix - she's on her 3rd course now but it's not really healing fully. I was wondering about trying a mild epsom salt bath to see if that would help.
I want to make sure though that this won't harm her in any other way before I even attempt it. Can someone advise if a mild salt bath will be alright or not. Many thanks in advance

[jodilynn]

Well, from my experience I had a much worse reaction with Epsom salt than I did with Aquarium salt (see above).

My corys recently spent a week in a MILD (1 tablespoon per 10 gallons vs. per 5 gallons, which is the recommended dose) with no adverse effects. The owner of the REPUTABLE LFS has always assured me that a regular medicinal dose (2 tablespoons per 10 gallons) is perfectly safe.

I unfortunately (as someone in another thread warned me) had a couple of the Pictus cats in the quarantine tank come down with Ich so I am treating them with a broad spectrum non-antibiotic treatment, when that course is over I plan to keep the temperature up (it's at 84 degrees) and run the salt treatment again just to be safe.

[Akasha]

Hi and thanks. My plan (if I can get the okay to do it!) would be to 'dip' the cory rather than 'bath' her (I've only just learned there's a difference in the terminology of the two!)

What I have done in the past for external parasites, cuts, or sores is to add a small amount of epsom salt to a jug of tank water, catch the affected fish and pop them into the jug for about 5 to 10 minutes. I then normally have another jug of clean tank water for them to then go into to 'rinse' off before adding back to my tank. I've found this to work 99% of the time but I've never tried it with a cory - only with my tetra's and harlequins
My plan with my cory was to do this with her but I'm worried about the cory and salt 'rule' which is why I am holding off doing anything without further opinion

[VelcroWY]

Some people have had success with salt & corys, or so they say. I am not a believer. I have had NO success at all with salt & corys. No doubt very low amounts of salt, especially if salt levels are raised gradually . . . never mind, I'll never try it again.

[Tetranerd]

Bumping a super old thread while researching another subject, rabbit holed my way into this thread.

Magnesium is often used orally as a supplement for people who are magnesium deficient, but also very commonly used as a laxative. There is no documentation that it can be absorbed thru skin. So Epsom salt baths for humans or animals is really not therapeutic.

Salt or Sodium Chloride is often use as an antibacterial/antimicrobial due to its ability to slow reproduction of bacteria or in some cases cause an osmotic shock by pulling water from the bacterial cell. So salt in the water in a high enough concentration may help in healing wounds or decrease the time a bacterial infection has to affect a fish.

It’s hard to tell the actual amount of salt that is “therapeutic” to each species or groups of fish due to little research being done with salt. So it’s an experiment to figure out what levels are going to be helpful without actually overdosing or causing ill affects.
Our fluid in our bodies is made up of NaCl and H2O at a 0.9%. Too much salt in our bodies will cause us to retain waTer and we then swell up and become puffy. Too little salt and our Sodium Potassium pumps begin to work incorrectly and we then run into muscle cramping due to imbalances of said two substances.

So from an animal that lives a portion of each year in low mineral waters, I worry about the therapeutic curve of adding such substances (NaCl or Mag Sulf) to our aquariums. We have no clue if too little helps at all, and if too much causes harm.

We have all taken a big drink out of the cough medicine bottle after being told to take ONLY 1 teaspoonful per dose. So most aquarium keepers with no access to laboratory grade testing equipment are only guessing at how much is enough.

Hope it helps. I’ve been in the chemical side of healthcare for 30 years. It’s not glamorous, but it has taught me a lot about practical application of chemicals for our animals we keep, and how living things react to such chemicals.
🧐

[dw1305]

Hi all,
This has come up a few times on the forum (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35797). Personally I'm not a salt user, but others are.

So from an animal that lives a portion of each year in low mineral waters, I worry about the therapeutic curve of adding such substances (NaCl or Mag Sulf) to our aquariums. We have no clue if too little helps at all, and if too much causes harm.

That is the question for me as well, if fish come from water with very low conductivity and very few ions, why would they benefit from raising the level of Na+ and Cl- ions? I don't have much fish physiology knowledge, but I understand a certain amount about evolution by natural selection.

Against that I can definitely see why some humic substances in the water could be therapeutic (http://www.seriouslyfish.com/all-the-leaves-are-brown/).

cheers Darrel

[yogi1103]

Old post, but here's an interesting study

Salt Tolerance in the Callichthyid Catfish (Corydoras aeneus)
IAAAM Archive
Rhonda Murphy; Gregory A. Lewbart
North Carolina State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, Raleigh, NC

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/def ... &pid=11257
https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/def ... &pid=11257

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Old post, but here's an interesting study

Salt Tolerance in the Callichthyid Catfish (Corydoras aeneus)
IAAAM Archive
Rhonda Murphy; Gregory A. Lewbart
North Carolina State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, Raleigh, NC

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/def ... &pid=11257
https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/def ... &pid=11257

I haven't seen that one before, it would suggest that

Corydoras aeneus

can survive at 2000ppm NaCl concentration for several months, but it is a deeply flawed study (see quotes from study below). My chief conclusion would be that they need to look at their animal welfare standards.

The tanks contained no filtration during the first 2 weeks of the study. The husbandry protocol included a 67% water change and the monitoring of the pH and ammonia levels every 48 hours. There were 9 recorded trials of pH and ammonia testing during this initial period. The ammonia levels ranged from 0.5 to 1.2 parts per million (ppm) and increasing ammonia and salt concentrations could be directly correlated.............

The labor involved in water changes became prohibitive and sponge filters were added to each aquarium. Once the sponge filters became established (approximately 3 weeks), water testing was reduced to every 72 hours and water changes to once per week...........During the study, there was a 10 day period of inadequate heating of the catfish facility. Water temperatures dropped below the optimal 26 degrees Centigrade (the lowest recorded temperature was 14 degrees C) and 4 catfish died in different aquariums during this time period. During the 13 week study a total of 10 catfish died.........

There is evidence that salt in the water may be stressing the C. aeneus but that this stress does not cause significant mortality over a 13 week period. Furthermore, 13 of 16 fish survived a salt concentration of 2.0 ppt for the entire study period and 16 of 16 fish survived in the 1.0 ppt water. Salt concentrations in the 1.0 ppt to 2.0 ppt range are considered therapeutic for ornamental fishes

cheers Darrel