Coolwater

[Psy]

I know there is an old thread from a few years back, but is anyone doing any new coolwater tanks? Maybe OLD coolwater tanks, since it seems that most of the early imports that survived were tolerant of cooler water.

I'm slowly working on the fish room that should keep the temperature warm enough, but I'm still debating what to do with the big show tanks. Currently in CA cichlids, they would be better off in the fish room where I could run the heater higher without a really high heating bill. I'll run a heater to keep the swings to a minimum, but I don't ever see the Salvini if the temperature is under 78, Convicts seem active to a cooler temperature. Plus, after a power scare (and memories of what "hurricane" Sandy did to everyone's east coast tanks) being tolerant of a dip seems like a good idea.

Its not like we don't have choices.

Hillstream catfishes and loaches. (summers are tough for the hillstream fish 80f+ )
Gymnogeophagus from SA. Texas Cichlids could be kept around 70f during the winter
White Clouds, Rosy Barbs, and of course goldfish. (has anyone ever seen a nice goldfish tank?)
Sailfin Mollies have been reported to survive in the mid 40s (6f) and breed readily at 72f (22c).

Then we have the North American native fish. State regulations can be a problem unless its legally a baitfish.
I suppose no one is going to have a big problem with a sunfish or two (though their breeding looks even more tricky than cichlids in terms of female safety.) or a bullhead. A redfin pickerel would be nice if apparently tricky to feed.

[Bas Pels]

While living far away, in Europe, I might help you

Firstly, the (a) fishroom. I've insulated my garage rathe well, with 10 cm (4 inches) of glaswool, and then a wooden wall. In this garage I put 16 tanks, totlly 6500 liters of water. Lighting, water movement was all the energy I spend, and it kept the room and water in winter on 26 C or more. Still, I understand the US winters are by far more cold then here (-10 C at night is something which does not happen every winter in my country)So you would need some heatring in winter. Heating the room instead of the tanks could save you much.

With regards to keeping fishes ithout heating - I once read on this forum that room temperature in the USA is much warmer then here. I kept a tank with Rio Panuco cichlids without heating for years - you might get away with more

A salvini @ 24 C might not work, but Jack dempsey would. Looking further away, in the south of Brasil, Paraguay you could find loads of fish which you could keep witout heating. In winter these would, however, prefer 18 C above 25

Native fishes would, I think, not be a very good idea. Firstly because you do heat your house, and therefore it will be too hot in there for the fishes, secondly, if a fish could manage to get away, it will have a high chance of ending in a wrong river, where ikt both can survive ans find related fishes - whith which it will hybridize.

It is Always the savest keeping fishes which will die outside - especially in winter.

[tomgiammarco]

I have to disagree with the previous poster who recommended that you not keep native fishes. I have almost always kept native fish no matter where I have lived. In fact, the sheepshead minnow (Cyprinodon variegatus variegatus)was the first egg-layer I bred as a kid in New England and I will never forget how intense the colors of the male became while he was courting the females. are just as interesting as tropicals and sometimes almost as brightly colored. Now living in Korea, I am always amazed at the native fish available to me. Some of the bitterling species here rival the rainbow fishes.

Whether or not a fish will survive the winter if it 'gets away' (?) should never be a factor as no fish you have kept in an aquarium should ever be released or re-released into the local waterways. (In my experience, a fish who has gotten away has never made it further than the living room floor..)

[thijs]

I think the bigger issue is non-native fishes that survive in your climate. But a carefull keeper should not have this problem except when he uses an outside pond. In the Netherlands we have some issues with escaped aquatic species (mostly crayfish, but also Misgurnus anguillicaudatus). Truly native fishes shouldn't be a problem, except for distinctive populations.

As to the original post: I guess species from Florida should be okay in a tank.

[Narwhal72]

I keep native species also. (Rainbow darters and Spotfin shiners). My shiners spawn all the time but raising the fry has been difficult (I need smaller live food).

Many houses in the U.S. are not the same temperature throughout. My upstairs has a temperature of 68 degrees (F) on average in the winter time. The tanks I keep in my basement on the lower racks (outside my heated fish room) average in the mid 50's(F) in winter. Plenty cool enough for natives. In the summer time they get up into the low 70's which is still fine.

There are many native fish that have very interesting colors and behaviour that are easy to keep. But like all fish, proper husbandry requires that they never be reintroduced to the wild once taken into captivity.

Andy

[Psy]

Speaking of Florida.

One of their most common invasive fish are the Oscars. I would think that of all the species they'd have trouble with the sometimes cooler water. Maybe the Orinoco wet season is a bit cooler than is commonly reported?

With the tanks and the dehumidifier, the basement room is actually the warm room here. Next room over is pretty cool of course. The living area has the heater go on at 60 overnight, so a bit cool for many of the semi-tropicals. (But heating to 70 seems much better than 80).

[Psy]

I guess this is a fine place to put this.

I was screwing around with the 10g betta/bristlenose tank. This tank is kept warm, about 82f (convenient conversion to C is 28C).

With the house heat set at 60f, jumping to 65f between 5pm and 10pm, it used 1.288 kW. I added half inch foam to the back and both sides. 24 hours later, 1.059 kW, saving more than 13% in electricity (though, for me, its only $0.40/month).

[Bas Pels]

Nice example of what insulation can do

Heating a tank uses quite a lot of energy, in many cases more than lights and the pumps together need.

However, pumping water does need energy too, and if one would put the pump into the water, all heat would be used for pumping AND heating. That is, you will get some heating for free

[Psy]

True, although you can then have the inverse problem come summer. Reef keepers now have powerheads that sit outside the tank!

This tank does have a small internal filter (Tetra Whisper Internal Power Filter- commonly used for palladium systems too). It would be interesting to compare that to an HOB and an air- sponge filter. Air power is a wash in a heated fish room at least, but I wonder what its doing in a tank with normal room temps.

[Psy]

Small update.

I'm keeping 7 Gymnogeophagus "yerbalito" (http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7107) and some white clouds in a 75 gallon. At 65f, as low as my heater will go, they are eating nearly as greedily as they did at 75f. They are still pretty small, but the 2 confirmed males are pretty well colored up even at the low temperature. Should be a mouthbrooder once they're a bit bigger, but I bet they'd breed at this temperature.