Will x-rays sterilize plecos?

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 21 Jan 2003, 19:22

I am going to Oslo this weekend, and I am hoping that I'll come across some L-46, and maybe som other L-numers too. The problem is as follows:
I cannot send the fish in an styrofoam box as regular luggage due to, what i think is stupid reasons, I must instead send them with a cargo-company called SAS Cargo. This will cost me 100$/Euro ++. That is unnaceptable for me. So, I only have one other alternative as i see it: Put the fish in their bags and put them in my handluggage and bring them on the plane. The thing is, I'm really not allowed this, no matter how good they are packaged. And at the airport i will be going back from, Gardermoen, ALL hand-luggage and people are checked by metal detectors and X-ray machines. The backpack will of course have to go through the X-ray machine.

I have heard that male fish may become sterile if sent through one of these machines. Some say this, others say that they don't become sterile. As i wan't to breed the L-46, having sterile males won't do any good (other than looking at that is

so I wondered if any of you people could say if this is true or not... Do they become sterile or not?

By the way, since i am not really allowed to take them on the plane, It's a bit risky to have the security personel check the fish manually as they may take the beautifull fish away from me, and they will no doubt be killed.

Post by **Silurus** » 21 Jan 2003, 20:39

My friend once brought back some Endler's livebearers across the Pacific and he stuck them in his hand luggage, which was x-rayed.
The livebearers came back OK and proceeded to multiply like crazy.
YMMV, of course.

Post by **Shane** » 21 Jan 2003, 23:15

Konig,
No problem with the X-Ray. I have had a ton of fish go through them. Don Kinyon brought back a number of Corydoras venezuelanus, C. venezuelanus "black", and wild rams that we collected when he visited me in Venezuela. He has since spawned all of these fish.
My worst problem was once flying from Seattle to Spokane. I placed a large black lancer in my carry on and the stewardess made me put the carry on in the overhead. As we approached Spokane, the lancer punctured the bag. Since the plane was descending (nose down) the water went forward and began dripping on the people two seats ahead of me. They called the stewardess and complained and she told them it was condensation from the descent. Upon landing I very quickly grabbed the bag, which was now leaking really fast, and exited the plane. After an emergency water change in the airport bathroom (always carry water conditioner!) I saved the lancer and got him home.
-Shane

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 22 Jan 2003, 14:27

Hi!

As my dad works for SAS i asked him about sending fish and stuff...he says its captains decision to transport the fish...so it shouldnt be a problem to bring them home in your backpack...sending them by cargo he says they double the normal price for avi (live animals) hence the high price...money making...

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 22 Jan 2003, 16:18

Quite frankly, I could not care less what the captain thinks (no offense Caol). If they do not accept a few innocent fish in a solid plastic container (I'll try getting a box instead of the plastic bags) but people may freely fill the cabin with gallons and gallons of flamable alcohol (you know... booze!), that just doesn't make sense... Allthough the rules may say otherwise, I have yet to see a stewardess react on the clink-clank sound of glass bottles in the overhead compartment.

I has recently been told that the security people doesn't have the authority to take my fish away, they can only take dangerous items from me, like knives and such.

If they start arguing, I have a print from the airports webpage. There's a list there that says what you may not bring aboard an airplane... No catfish I know of are corrosive, nor are they flamable or magnetic...

I am still in a bit of doubt if i should send them through the X-ray... I have still not read anything about X-rays acctually having done harm to fish, only that i should awoid it, "just to be on the safe side"

Thanks for all the help folks

Chill · Post by **Chill** » 22 Jan 2003, 16:26

Send them on the train, fly home and then pick them up when the train arrives

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 22 Jan 2003, 16:38

I wouldn't think X-rays are high enough in frequency to sterilise a fish (or a person). For that you need gamma rays.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 22 Jan 2003, 16:41

@könig:...the capitano thing only means that if he doesnt kick you from the plane you should be ok...not that you go there and ask him anyway ;)

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Jan 2003, 16:48

Chrysichthys,

Exposure to x-rays can lead to sterility, depending on the dosage. Not sure if those airport machines carry a high enough dosage to do that.

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 22 Jan 2003, 18:53

I just bought four 2.5 litre (0.66 gallons) plastic containers with twist on caps that has a diameter of 3.2 cm (1.26 inch). Can i only carry one L-46 or similarily sized L-numbers in one of these, or can i carry more? I doubt they will be in the container for more than six hours.

Sort of strange question, but in generall, how long is an L-cat that has a diameter of 3 centimeters? If i buy any fish that are too large for the boxes, i can off course put them in plastic bags, but i feel much more comfortable with a good hard plastic box

Maybe a good idea for you, Shane ;)

btw, the containers where marked as "Water containers" so i doubt they have any toxins that may be harmfull. I will off course clean them (soap-free) before use to be sure.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 22 Jan 2003, 18:58

how will you maintain high oxygen levels for your fish during the 6 hours?

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Jan 2003, 19:01

Keeping the fish chilled might be a way to lower their oxygen demand. This way, you don't have to make use of any more oxygen that is already in the water.

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 22 Jan 2003, 20:06

I can just open the box once in a while and get som fresh oxygen in to the fish.

As far as i know, you can carry fish in a closed plastic bag for three hours if the temperature is normal, without the fish being harmed by this.

As for temperature, I either put it in my bag wich goes in the bagage compartment of the airplane where the temperature is -30 to -50 C, so that may be a bit cold... In general, I would guess that the mean temperature in the airplane and at the airport is 18-20 degrees celsius.

Anyone who knows about how many plecs i can put in the containers?

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 22 Jan 2003, 20:26

Hi!

Well it will depend of the species on of it size and age!
But remeber you will buy fish in a shop that have been fed and wil drop poop in the box, which will fool the water. The more fish in one and the more poop will be drop so the faster the quality of the water will deteriorate.
If immature pl*co not over 5cm I would say 3 maximum!
If 5-8 cm I would say 2 max
anything over 1 per box
If they are mature just 1 per box in any case!!!!
Finally I would not try bringing any pl*co that is over 10cm!
Cheers
Yann

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 22 Jan 2003, 20:29

I doubt that i can afford L-46's any bigger than 5 cm, so I will probably go for two per box. An L-46 at 5 cm will fit through the hole in the container, right?

If nessecary, i can cut the box open when i get home.

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 22 Jan 2003, 20:32

Hi!

Sorry I did not see that you had put the diameter of the box!
Yeah it should just fit in!
Otherwise you can let them go out by themself in a basket, it will avoid to stress them to much as they probably be far enough stress by the trip!
Cheers
Yann

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 22 Jan 2003, 20:58

Ah i had a false impression of the container...

ive transported my L15 at 6 cm in a destilled water container with a hole diameter of 3,7 cm and the fit in...although one jumped from my hand and ran about 1 meter over the ground...strange sight

Post by **Rusty** » 24 Jan 2003, 00:57

König Löwe wrote:I can just open the box once in a while and get som fresh oxygen in to the fish.

I wouldn't think there'd be any need to open the bags/boxes, as it would probably do more harm than good. I have kept Clarotids bagged for 3 days, with no apparent ill effects. It may do harm to the fish, because plane cabins are normally pressurized to about what you would feel at 10,000 feet (3075 m). The difference in ambient pressure between what's in the bag (presumably 1 atm, or sealevel pressure) and what's in the cabin, and the sudden pressure change because of the opening, may "bend" the fish (this is also why you should only fill plastic bags 2/3's full, to allow the gases to expand). Another thing to keep in mind is the CO2 off-gassing that occurs when you open a bag that has had a fish in it for a long period of time. When you open the bag, the CO2 escapes, raising the pH and converting ammoniums to ammonia. The zebras should be fine w/o any special care during the flight.

Rusty

Post by **Dinyar** » 24 Jan 2003, 01:20

Rusty's right. We buy most of our fish by mail order. We have had H. zebra, the fish in question, bagged for 24 hours and in great shape upon arrival. Synos and Clarotids will do fine in a bag for 3 days or more (we've seen it ourselves). You really don't want to open the bag in-flight, as Rusty points out. It will do much more harm than good.

Of course, you should be aware of the ABCs of shipping fish. De-poop them for 48 hours before shipment. One fish to a bag. Tape the corners. Double or triple bag. 1/3 water, 2/3 air. Inflate the bag to only about 2/3. Add Amquel or other ammonia-blocker immediately upon opening bag. Better not to add any chemicals to the water, but in some situations, a drop or two of meth blue (oxygen scavenger) may help.

König Löwe · Post by **König Löwe** » 27 Jan 2003, 20:37

I ended up getting four Corydoras concolor and two C. caudimaculatus. As i only had 20 minutes before my plane was leaving, i decided to send the fish through the X-rays, wich they survived without any visible signs of damage.

I asked my natural science teacher about X-rays, since he know something about everything. He said that the X-rays charge electrons (charged electrons is the basis of electricity for those who don't know), which *may* "make som hell" as he said. He allso said that apx. 2 % of all people hav a certain sensitivity to X-rays and may have troubles with X-rays. Maybe it's the same way with fish?

Chrysichthys · Post by **Chrysichthys** » 29 Jan 2003, 17:08

Silurus wrote:Chrysichthys,

Exposure to x-rays can lead to sterility, depending on the dosage. Not sure if those airport machines carry a high enough dosage to do that.

I stand corrected, having looked it up, X-rays are indeed ionising radiation.

clothahump · Post by **clothahump** » 29 Jan 2003, 17:30

König.
Depending on how many you want to buy why not import a box yourself, 28 large or 20 exrta large in a box.
I have a suppliers address if it interests you.
PM or email me.