H. littorale raised/ragged scutes, fins, open sores

[Rokuzachi]

Hey guys,

A few months ago I dealt with some fin rot in my display tank. I went ahead and assumed it was a worst-case scenario of columnaris and treated the stricken fish with Furan-2 and Kanaplex for 2-4 weeks depending on their condition. The fish were very stressed but their illness had gone. I reintroduced them to the main tank which had been broken down and cleaned in the interim.

Now, it's back and worse than before. I don't know if it's columnaris, or a fungus, or velvet. Here's a quick description before pictures. It took hold 24-36 hours ago and has already progressed very, very quickly.

- Raised scutes with a pale, crusty white along the edges and faded color in the area
- The tissue between the scutes appears inflamed and raised
- Rapid and severe fin rot is present on one fish and the above symptoms are present at the base of the tail. At this point all that are left are the rays (which are intact, but the tissue between them is gone)
- Clamped fins
- The first fish to exhibit the sympoms had the raised area turn into open lesions
- Loss of color
- Hiding and staying stationary most of the time instead of patrolling for food

Despite all of that, they still have appetites and will quickly eat anything I put into the tank. I am currently treating the entire thing with Kanaplex. Here's a few pictures. As soon as the one with the damaged fins comes out I'll try to get a shot of the worst part.

I'm curious to know what I'm fighting here. I'm not very experienced with illnesses in aquaria.





Thanks for any insight you can offer.

[Rokuzachi]

A couple of them passed while in quarantine. Here are some pictures of them within an hour or two of dying - the bloody patches are what used to be those pale, crusted areas in the original photos. You can also see that the plates along the top of their body have something funky going on. My other observations include that, despite consuming food while ill, the fish continued to lose mass. They aren't deathly thin, but they aren't slightly chubby like they used to be. I also noticed that their eyes, which are usually a bit bulbous and stick out some, are more sunken into their head now. Any insight is appreciated.

[Doras]

Sad to hear that you're losing your fish.
I think one of my bettas died of something similar, but i haven't figured out what it was and i lost only one fish to this. I guess it might be connected to poor water quality and/ or high stress levels. Also it may be something latent, which is already in your fish when you buy it and progresses slowly ultimately killing your fish.
If i were you, I'd try to find a veterinarian who can examine the dead fish using the microscope. If it's impossible, i would treat hoplos with some strong antibiotic, since i suspect it's bacterial.
I don't know for sure what it might be, just some thoughts of mine. Hope someone could tell you more precisely what to do.

[Rokuzachi]

Thanks for the response.

I've been assuming that it was bacterial, and treated it with Kanaplex + Furan-2. Quarantine was receiving daily 50% water changes. If it's the same thing as before, it's much more vicious now. Oddly enough, it only affected the hoplos. The other fish (3 small fancy goldfish) from the same tank are healthy and show no signs of illness.

At least 3 of the hoplos were fairly old. ~6" and hadn't grown at all in the two years I've had them (no real way to determine age). Perhaps their age and the move about a month ago to the new apartment has finally done them in by weakening them enough to let whatever this is take hold.

The three remaining ones are in better shape than the four that have passed. They are a bit ragged but don't have the severe lesions. I suspect that whatever this is, is also causing severe internal problems as one moment the fish will be semi-active, and an hour later they are incapacitated on the bottom and barely breathing. I came home to one of them like this yesterday and he was twitching strangely before I put him out of his misery. I've never had a sick/dying fish behave quite like that before.

[Doras]

Maybe the fish were too old and their immune systems weren't efficient enough anymore? As you say, perhaps the move weaken them even more and that's the result.
What are the tankmates? Maybe some fish is bullying them. Can you give dead ones to vet for examination? For how long are they treated now? Most of the antibiotics need a week or two before there is an improvement.
Maybe it'll be worth to try different antibiotic, if present ones won't work - unfortunately there are many antibiotic-resistant bacteria these days.
I wonder what the disease might be, i always thought that hoplos are pretty "indestructible" but now i'm not that sure (and i started to worry about my ones). Hope your last three specimens will recover.

[Rokuzachi]

I though the same - these guys were wild caught and they came in with a variety of health issues. Parasites/worms, severe fin damage, you name it, but they recovered rapidly and had been healthy for two years up until a month ago. I figured if they could survive in a Florida ditch, they could survive just about anything, lol.

The only tankmates were the three small fancy goldfish and the last semi-aggro tankmate they had was over a year ago and never harassed them (a 4" chocolate cichlid). If another one dies I think I'll freeze him until I can get to a vet after the holidays.

What's really got me puzzled is how it's only hit the Hoplos. I'd never thought that goldies had constitution that could be considered sturdy, so I expected them to get sick immediately once I noticed it on the catfish.

Edit: Well, after doing some more research, I found the following.

I stumbled across "red sore disease" on wild game fish. That lead me to "red spot disease", which was listed on a diagnosis page along with Costia. I think the description of Costia is very close;

White film on body or in patches. Red sores/areas. Sometimes raised scales. Clamped fins. Flesh may deteriorate in the areas with white film. One article also said that Costia can be very focal and only affect some fish in a tank even though it can spread easily, and that even on a specific fish the population of Costia may be limited to small areas.

People recommend raised temps, salt treatment or even formalin. I'm going to run to the store tonight and find some things and see if I have a salt-resistant variety of the thing or not. At this point I don't think I have anything to lose since it's rapidly killed over half of my hoplos in less than 3 days.

[Doras]

Glad to hear you found the answer! Good luck with treating. Let us know if the treatment works.

[Rokuzachi]

I think I nailed it, thankfully. Several hours ago I dropped a second dose of Rid Ich+ (it was the only thing at the store that had formalin and malchite green in it) into the QT. I threw a few NLS pellets in moments ago and the fish that were no longer eating and had sunken eyes/bellies chowed down on it. Progression has stopped, but I can't tell if there's much healing going on yet. Going to keep the treatment up for a while after the signs are gone as the fish don't seem to mind the medicine.

If this was indeed Costia, then heat + ich medicine has done a number on it over night. I wish I'd been able to diagnose it sooner - I have no idea why it was so hard to find information on this illness given how much searching I did.

[Doras]

Hi, how are your fish?
One of my hoplos looks similar to your fish, she has some white spots on scutes and on the snout (it doesn't look like fungus). And lower tip of her tail is also white. I gave her quick bath in formalin and she's in salt treatment now. Think i try some anti-ich medication if salt won't work.
Here's my question - do your fish were very thin before white spots occured? My fish had sunken belly for some time (didn't pay attention to it earlier, as one symptom is not enough to diagnose anything. Stupid me). She swims and eats normally, but looks rather poor - you can see there's something wrong with her. All the other fishes are perfectly fine.