Please ID this Ancistrus

[fis]

Can you please ID this Ancistrus, I just got 2, they are around 3-3.5 cm long



Thanks in advance!

[GhostArcher]

Looks like a small

Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus

to me.

[Silurus]

Looks like a small

Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus

to me.

Don't think so, on the account of the white spots. More likely to be a young

Ancistrus punctatus

.

[fis]

I just talked with the guy that gave me the fish, he said that they are Ancistrus dolichopterus L183

?

[Martin S]

I just talked with the guy that gave me the fish, he said that they are Ancistrus dolichopterus L183

?

Hi
No, not

L183

as these have 10 dorsal rays. Your fish only has 8. Identifying spotted Ancistrus is very difficult - are they fry he's selling on? I wouldn't rule out Siluris' suggestion.
HTH
Martin

[fis]

I just talked with the guy that gave me the fish, he said that they are Ancistrus dolichopterus L183

?

Hi
No, not

L183

as these have 10 dorsal rays. Your fish only has 8. Identifying spotted Ancistrus is very difficult - are they fry he's selling on? I wouldn't rule out Siluris' suggestion.
HTH
Martin

I was comparing some photos and noticed that the L182 doesn't have white seams (I hope thats the right word ), these guys have, and the tail is rounder

[fis]

Here is another photo from the other one

[Narwhal72]

The white seams disappear with age. I also have some L182 and have been growing them out.

I would agree that it's an L182 juvenile.

[fis]

Does L183 also loses the white seams when they grow up? What about the tail fins? On all photos of the L182 I saw a straight line while the L183 have a round tail. I counted more than 8 rays on the 2nd photo (maybe I'm counting wrong ). Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to be a smart @ss

It looks like we can be sure when they are fully grown, I read that L182 can grow up to 25cm, and the L183 up to 10cm.

Oh, one more thing, how much is the difference in price between L182 and L183?

Thanks all for the comments!

[nvcichlids]

In the first photo, I only count 8 rays. Just to make sure, you don't count out at the tips of the fin, but at the base area, as they do split (as seen in the first photo.)

I would like to agree they are not L183. L182 is possible, but I have not kept them. The L182 was being sold locally here for around $15 per at 1.5-2" (Andy, correct me if that is the wrong size of the fish.)

[Narwhal72]

L183 will keep the white seam as an adult. At least all the adult fish I have seen have it still. It may fade with extreme age.

I still count only 8 rays in both pictures so it would not be L183. The rounded tail may still be an artifact of it being a juvenile fish. The tail will likely straighten out in profile with age.

Andy

[fis]

Thanks guys!

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

definitely no A. cf. cirrhosus and also no L 183 (having 9-11 dorsal fin rays including the unforked spine).

According to Ingo Seidel juvenile specimen of L 182 (from Guyana) have red-brownish seams, so I would also rule out this species.

By the way why is A. punctatus (from Brazil, Mato Grosso/Amazonas) put into synonymy with L 182 at PCF, in Ferraris checklist (2007) as well as at fishbase it is not listed as a valid species but listed as synonym to A. hoplogenys which is L 59.
A. hoplogenys is IMHO clearly a different species than L 182.

I cannot tell for sure which species it is, what about L 181 ?!

Cheers,

[Jools]

By the way why is A. punctatus (from Brazil, Mato Grosso/Amazonas) put into synonymy with L 182 at PCF, in Ferraris checklist (2007) as well as at fishbase it is not listed as a valid species but listed as synonym to A. hoplogenys which is L 59.

The synonymy is in error. The species that it was meant to be synonymised was A. dolichopterus but that is also rather dubious. Going back to the description of A. punctatus, it fits L182 rather well. This is known to some working in the field, it's just a rather obscure point and there are lots more interesting undescribed loricariids out there to work on first...

Jools

[fis]

here is another photo

The dorsal fin of A. dolichopterus shows a higher number of fin rays (8-10 soft rays)

I'm even more confused now

Well it looks like we will have to be patient to find out, I was hoping that its the L183 only because they are not growing big.

[fis]

sorry guys here is another one (just snapped)



those guys were introduced in the tank yesterday

[Karsten S.]

Hi Jools,

The synonymy is in error. The species that it was meant to be synonymised was A. dolichopterus but that is also rather dubious. Going back to the description of A. punctatus, it fits L182 rather well. This is known to some working in the field, it's just a rather obscure point and there are lots more interesting undescribed loricariids out there to work on first...

I totally agree that L 182 is neither A. dolichopterus (L 183) nor A. hoplogenys (L 59).
But from the origin of A. punctatus (Brazil, Mato Grosso and Amazonas) to the origin of L 182 (Guyana, nothern border of Brazil) it's quite a distance. With Ancistrus spp. I would assume that it's too far away and we are having two different species...

However, I don't have the initial description at hand and don't know any certified pictures of A. punctatus.
But it would greatly surprise me that the included information of such an old work (Steindachneri 1881) contained enough information to identify an Ancistrus species, or did you have the chance to analyse the syntypes ?

@fis: I'm rather sure that you don't have L 182, A. punctatus is unknown to me. L 183 is by the way not really a small species (in nature up to 25 cm, in the aquarium usually smaller than 20 cm).

Cheers,

[claro]

Hi,

it is L 181.

Milan

[fis]

oh , so its L181, L182 or L183, they don't look to me like L182, different fins shape, but I'm not an expert , well we can be sure in a couple of months right?

[Karsten S.]

Hi,

yes, at this age you cannot be absolutely sure, even when they are fully grown it might be impossible to tell.
No one knows all the well above hundred of Ancistrus species/forms as adults and juveniles...
You can for sure exclude L 183, IMHO you can also exclude L 182.

L 181 is as I already said an option, this species can be found quite frequently in the hobby.
The fact that they were given to you under the name L 183 makes this even more probable as also the adults of L 181 are very similar to L 183.
However, by counting the dorsal fin rays you can in most cases tell these two species apart.

Cheers,

[fis]

Here are two photos taken today

[blue teddy]

Not sure could be white -spotted bristlenose 12/15cm. Hope this helped.


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[Jools]

There are dozens of

Ancistrus

with white spots, but this may well be

Ancistrus dolichopterus

.

Jools