New Cory Problems - Yes I'm New to the site

[Beersnob]

I have had problems lately with the new cory additions. I have lost 3 new cories in the last 2 months. New is recently bought and added to the tank (1 to 2 weeks before the cories die . The place I buy them from is very good about the health of the fish they sell. I did lose one cory about 3 months agos shortly after the BIG BLACKOUT of 2003 I am trying to figure out why are the cories dying within that short time span. What do I need to change to allow my favorite cats - Cories to live when I get them?

If my current cories also died that would make sense to me. My tank is 46 gallon equipped with an undergravel filter and power filter system. I have live plants in the tank.

I currently have 2 cories, 2 clown loaches, 3 platys, blue mystis cat, octinoculus (Dwarf Cat), 4 fancy guppies (2 adult, 2 young), 1 Black Sword, 1 Ghost Cat, 1 Porthole Catfish, 1 zebra danio, and 1 red cherry barb.

I'm hoping that the vast resources and people here at the site may be able to have an idea or 2 to try. I really doubt the place I get my fish would have fish in poor health and sell them to me. If they know there is something wrong with the fish they refuse to sell them no matter what kind of begging or bartering is offered. My other fish would get sick also. The last one died from a swim bladder illness. The others were dead before I could determine the illness.

Thanks for your help!

Scott

[magnum4]

need to know a little bit more about the tank.

How long has it been set up?

What are the water conditions like, ammonia, nitrite, pH..ect.

The only ones lost have been corys? what species?

My other fish would get sick also

yes many people think this however new arrivles to a tank have more to adjust to and are often the ones that suffer the most.

The last one died from a swim bladder illness.

what were the symptoms?

[Beersnob]

Magnum,

The answers to your questions are in italics. Thanks for your assitance.

need to know a little bit more about the tank.

How long has it been set up?

The tank has been set up for a total of 2 years. We moved in December of 2003 and have been removing 33% of the water bi-weekly.

What are the water conditions like, ammonia, nitrite, pH..ect.
NH3 0 mg/L
NO2 0 mg/L
NO3 60-80 mg/L
pH 7.0

Other than changes every 203 days is there a better method of lowering the NO3? It has been a problem that we find quite often.

The only ones lost have been corys? what species?
Panda, Juli, and Punctuatis

My other fish would get sick also

yes many people think this however new arrivles to a tank have more to adjust to and are often the ones that suffer the most.
What would be the cause? Why would a new fish suffer that much more shock as opposed to a fish who has been in potentially poor conditions?

The last one died from a swim bladder illness.

what were the symptoms?

The fish died within 2 days period of time. It appeared to come on pretty fast. The initial symptons were erratic swimming with one side listing heavily. At the end the fish had become very lethargic and layed on its side.

Thanks,

Scott

[Coryman]

Personally I think keeping Botia's and Cory's together is not a good idea, I have seen Botia's bullying Cory's to the extent that they stop feeding,

Ian

[magnum4]

What would be the cause? Why would a new fish suffer that much more shock as opposed to a fish who has been in potentially poor conditions?

I think your corys died of chemical shock i.e. too high nitrate. The difference is although nitrate is not as toxic as ammonia, or nitrite, it is still toxic in high enough quantity. Whereas your other fish are settled in the tank and may only experience small increases over a period of weeks the corys you buy come from a nitrire reading of between 10-20ppm.

Other than changes every 2-3 days is there a better method of lowering the NO3? It has been a problem that we find quite often

Is the lighting system good enough for live plants, or if the nitrate problem is starting at the tap water an RO unit or similar.

[Pooks73]

not to state the obvious here, but if your nitrate levels are too high, you need to do one of three things:

1. get a larger filter
2. increase water changes
3. reduce the bioload

if high nitrate are an issue, that generally means that you're overstocked and/or under filtered. increasing water changes is always a good idea, even if your fish are healthy. there's nothing better than clean water.

[magnum4]

pooks73 how exactly would just:

1. get a larger filter

reduce nitrate?

[S-Cat7]

From what I can see there must be something else affecting your corys, other than the water chemistry. IME corys are pretty much tolerant of high nitrate, and if they don't like the water they are placed in they react immediately by swimming agitatedly around the tank and making frequent visits to the surface for air. When they tire of that, they sit on the bottom and breathe very quickly.

I keep my corys with clown loach and there has been no interaction between them.

High nitrate indicates that your filter is working but there is no nitrate assimilation taking place, nor any denitrification in the gravel bed. Besides more frequent water changes the addition of a canister power filter loaded with Nitrazorb or any other nitrate resin would reduce the concentration of nitrates over a couple of weeks.

If you can give us any more information about your tank, we might be able to learn more.

[Beersnob]

Personally I think keeping Botia's and Cory's together is not a good idea, I have seen Botia's bullying Cory's to the extent that they stop feeding,

Ian

The cories and the Botia (Clown Loaches) do not seem to have a problem living together. However, before the Great Blackout of 2003 (US-East Coast-Midwest), the 2 pictuses I had were bullying all the fish. After a frantic removal of fish and hightailing it to where there was power and back home again, the pictuses died. The Cories then began to show more of their nature at that time, instead of hiding under the live plants from the pictuses.

Thanks,

Scott

[Beersnob]

Is the lighting system good enough for live plants, or if the nitrate problem is starting at the tap water an RO unit or similar.[/quote]

I still have the original lighting system that came with the aquarium. Is that not enough light? With more light is there a conversion of nitrates to the plant? If so what kind of conversions? Any more info would be greatly appreciated.

RO Unit? I have Detroit City Water which is suppose to be one of the softest and cleanest city water systems in the world if not the US. I do not think I am following your train of thought. Please elaborate more.

Thanks,

Scott

[Beersnob]

From what I can see there must be something else affecting your corys, other than the water chemistry. IME corys are pretty much tolerant of high nitrate, and if they don't like the water they are placed in they react immediately by swimming agitatedly around the tank and making frequent visits to the surface for air. When they tire of that, they sit on the bottom and breathe very quickly.


In your experience, what would be the problem if it was not the water chemistry?


If you can give us any more information about your tank, we might be able to learn more.

The tank is a Euro style (Bowed front) 46 gallon tank. I have a power filter on it and 1 powerhead (Undergravel filter). Standard lights, and live plants. I believe the BOD levels are fine and in acceptable ranges (I have larger air stones that are aerating the water).

If any of this information helps let me know.


Thanks,


Scott

[magnum4]

I still have the original lighting system that came with the aquarium. Is that not enough light? With more light is there a conversion of nitrates to the plant? If so what kind of conversions? Any more info would be greatly appreciated.

I would do some seperate research on planted tanks because there is a fair bit of information i think everone should know before they set up a planted tank.
Very simply nitrate is used as a food source by plants. Weather the lights you have will be good enough depends on the make,wattage,and number, i'm not too familiar with US makes. But IMO you will need minimum 2 high power bulbs as long as it's not more than 15" deep, to get enough plant growth to improve your nitrate readings.

I have Detroit City Water which is suppose to be one of the softest and cleanest city water systems in the world if not the US. I do not think I am following your train of thought. Please elaborate more.

Even though the UK is reported to have very good quality water. some areas have nitrate out the tap of around 50ppm. reverse osmosis is a method which strips the water of 90%+ of all contaminents and allows you to make the water perameters you require with buffers avoiding all the nitrate, phosphate, chemicals. Just test the water out the tap and there might not even be any, but until you test you wont know.

[Managuense]

just wanted to add that UGF's are notorious for being nitrate factories....unless they are pretty rigorously maintained.

there is certainly nothing wrong with using them, but it is farily common on forums to see high nitrate readings with their use.

i dont know how your area of michigan is agriculturally, but it is entirely possible to have nitrate readings right out of the tap.

keeping plants, as mentioned above, would certainly lend a hand toward nitrate assimilation....but honestly i would just do more water changes and increase the volume of them as well. (granted that your nitrates are not TOO high out of the tap)

HTH
M

[Cheese Specialist]

Hi,

I just wanted to say that I hope your little corys get better. Also I have Corys (albino, black top and peppered) with 3 Botia macracanthus and they seem to be fine.

[S-Cat7]

Going back to your description of the corys swimming erratically & on their sides, this would indicate to me that there was either a physiological problem with those fishes or a disease problem. Excess nitrate would cause symptoms of poisoning (agitation and 'panting'), rather than disorientation. But this is all academic now.

The real test would be to reduce the nitrates significantly and see if any new corys lived or died : not a nice thing to do but it would settle the problem of whether the cause was high nitrates.

Powerheads on U/G filters are often detrimental to plant growth: the roots can be deprived of vital nutrients if these are flushed away or immediately oxidised to become unavailable. U/Gs work best at low turnover rates.

I still advocate quarantine as a reliable preventative measure. This way the fishes can be observed before they are introduced into the main tank, and treated for any signs of ill-health. They can then be acclimated to the water conditions in the other tank.

That's about it. I am sorry for your loss and frustration.

[jurassic_pork]

i agree with the problem being the ugf they cause way to much nitrate in the water,they seem to hold alot of the crap

[fishnut2]

Beersnob,
I recommend getting your cories from another source. Try a local breeder! If a Local fish store is your only choice...make sure that they aren't on a central system. This spreads diseases through all thier tanks. ALSO...make sure the store has holding tanks! If they don't have holding tanks for new arrivals...you are asking for trouble. I buy most of my fish online now...so I can purchase tank-raised stock...direct from the breeders. The cost of the frieght is offset by getting better quality fish, that don't get my other fish sick! You can also get a lot more information when buying direct from the breeder, as opposed to buying a pet shop that isn't breeding that particular species.
Hope this helps,
Rich - Fishnut2

[Beersnob]

Even though the UK is reported to have very good quality water. some areas have nitrate out the tap of around 50ppm. reverse osmosis is a method which strips the water of 90%+ of all contaminents and allows you to make the water perameters you require with buffers avoiding all the nitrate, phosphate, chemicals. Just test the water out the tap and there might not even be any, but until you test you wont know.

I did purchase some new chemicals and test strips. I found out that my tap water is measuring 20 mg/L (ppm) nitrate. Is this too high? What can be done affordably?

Thanks,

Scott

[magnum4]

I did purchase some new chemicals and test strips. I found out that my tap water is measuring 20 mg/L (ppm) nitrate. Is this too high? What can be done affordably?

It's not too high as such but it does put you at a disadvantage as you will have to do more water changes to counteract the tap water reading.

ask around at local shops see if they are useing any special equiptment?

Can you get nitragon units in the USA? Basicly a container filled with nitrate/phosphate removeing resins that can be recharged with salt when needed.

[Beersnob]

I believe I can purchase the phosphate/nitrite/nitrate/ammonia filtration substrate.

What about peat moss? I read that Corys especially like peat moss in the filtration system, but not why.


Thanks,

Scott

[S-Cat7]

peat filtration is especially good for corys, but not why

Peat filtration is only necessary to acidify the water to the lower pH levels some of the species seem to like. Some peats have slight water softening properties but not to a great extent. Many corys like soft, slightly acidic water but do not object if kept in hard water at around neutral pH. I have kept corys in both types without ill effects, but they do seem to prefer to breed in soft water.

Softening and acidification will not resolve your nitrate problems - get rid of high nitrates and sort out the health situation first.

[Allan]

Actually, lowering the pH will only ad to the nitrate-problem, as the buffer-kapacity of your substrate (gravel/sand/detritus) is lowered with an decrease in pH.

Remember also, that most lightsources wears out the effekt with time. You may not notice, but after 1 year a strip light will have lost approx 50% of its effekt!

Imo 20 mg/L NO3 is allready to high for most fish, i would only keep goldfish under such reading

Drastic measures requiering quite some funding may be your only way out.

[smithrc]

just thought I'd bring this thread back to life (rather than start another one).

We've been having some problems with panda corrys.

we've lost 3 to the same symptoms.... over a period of 4 months, one at a time.

firstly the start swimming to the surface occasionally (more than the nutty dashes they normally do)
then they start to hang around at the top gulping.
After a day or so of this, then get lazy, they still eat they just dont busy themselves looking for it. they just sit there most of the time. not long after that they pop their clogs

we had 4 at first. the first 2 died in our old tank (2' x1' x 1') that had been running for 4 months. They water levels were fine (chemical levels that is) and no other fish had problems. we've since moved to a bigger tank 120cm x 40 x 40 and got 4 more (taking it upto 6) they have all been in the new tank for 8 weeks and again the water levels are fine.

This time, we had just finished a course of antibacteria treatment when we noticed (2 days later)the cory starting to act like the last 2. so we decided to continue the treatment (it was for a danio with fluff on it) just incase it was related (the danio is fine)....

anyway it seemed to delay things but thats all. after nearly a week of having an unhappy looking panda that was lazing about, it's lying on its side looking very pale as i type (may already have gone to the pond in the sky )

None of these fish have been newbies or anything - they have all been well settled before having the problem.

has anyone had problems keeping pandas, are there any hardness problems they have?[/list]

[Allan]

Are the other fish acting completely normal?

If it was my tank, i would stop the antibacterial threatment right away, and do 33% waterchanges daily for a week. Maybe the cories are reacting to the meds, maybe the mads are killing filtering bacteria, both solved with this.

Could be the cories are sick from something else, but i seriously doubt it. Especially with no fish introduced lately. My guess is that this is caused by the medicine, direct or indirect.

What is Fluff? - Fungus?

[smithrc]

Morning...

The cory didn't make it.

All the other fish are fine (including the other pandas)

the first 2 to do this did it in an un treated tank, but i can see where your coming from.
We had a cory that developed mouth fungus (cotton mouth) (which is actually a bacterial problem - not a fungus) and a danio that seemed to get it too (by its mouth) the cory was still as active as ever but couldn't eat and starved to death the danio cleared up and is fine.

it was 3 days later that the cory in question started its odd behavior.

as youve suggested, we've done water changes since the treatment finished. the treatment did slow the process and the cory (i though was going to be ok) did stop the gasping but it still wasn't right.

the tank is about 40 UK galls with a fluval 4

Oh- as a note, it seems to be the smalest cory in the tank that dies... the 2 we have from the first 4 are now quite big... but it was the smallest on of the newer pandas thats done it this time.

[S-Cat7]

It sounds like that whatever it is, it is affecting the smallest and probably the weakest fish in the tank. It may be bacterial in origin, as you said that the treatment for mouth fungus (Flavobacteria spp) did appear to slow the progression of the disease down. This is something that the fishes have brought in with them and manifests itself with the stress of capture, bagging and transport.

I would be inclined to quarantine the affected fishes and treat with something like Myxazin to start with. (IMO, many of the proprietary treatments have little or no adverse reactions when used in the correct dosage). If this does not work then you have to go into the realm of prescription drugs -not a nice place

What other fish do you have, and what are your water conditions like?

[EDGE]

You would need at least 2 watt per gallon of Power Compact or NO flouroresent bulb to keep some of the plants growing.

Rena biochem star helps a lot with the building up the bacteria colony in a cannister filter. They work a lot better than the commecial porous rock because they dont clog up and has much longer life span.

As for removing nitrate

NITRA ZORB by Aquarium pharm.. is one way to remove nitrate. However, it isn't the proper way to go if you plan on keeping plants.

I would stay away from plants for now until you have some knowledge on growing plants. It is not as simple as adding light over a tank. There is a lot of time, effort and $ involve.


Use google and do a search on aquarium plants. The first 3 sites listed are good places to start. Browse around and dont' forget to use their forum. It is a good place to learn how others are keeping their plants.