From fry to day105 Ancistrus l059 (hoplogenys)

[1walter9]

Hello, totally unexpected i got eggs this week of my Ancistrus Hoplogenys, L059. I have give up the breeding of this couple a few weeks ago, the last few months I have had them in a separate tank and all attempts to get breeding but nothing helpep. I also had a lack of space in my breeding tanks so I had them put on the sales list six weeks ago. They are now in a different and larger aquarium with other fish, light sand bottom, a piece of wood and two breeding caves.A few days ago I saw to my surprise a cluster of eggs outside the breeding cave, with a cup I transferred them in a breeding tank.

At the moment of writing the eggs hatch.
My water parameters are:
temp 25.6 degrees
PH 7.3 (tapwater is around 8 PH, i lower the PH with oak leaf extract)

Did I read that I can give cucumber and zucchini? I also have spirulina tablets that ik can crush


L059 ancistrus hoplogenys eggs by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

Day 1:

Fry l059 day1 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Fry l059 day1 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Fry l059 day1 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

Dad:

Fry l059 day1 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[Borbi]

Walter,

congrats if this really is L59. I have had a spawn of them, and found them difficult to raise.

However: Looking at the pictures of the adults you provided I have some doubt that they indeed are L59.
Could you perhaps provide a picture of one of them with the dorsal fin erect?
That would give it away without a doubt.

Cheers, Sandor

[1walter9]

Hello Sandor, my L059 are around 6 years old. 2 years ago I bought them from somebody who got them from a company who is the biggest importer off West Europe, so I hope it is the real Hoplogenys.

I have some pictures of a male I have, maybe not that very clear, also the fish are out of colour becauce the are stressed http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=38553

I will make some photo's again.

Why do you think it is not a L059?

[corielover]

Everything I've read said that you could just feed regular veggies to the fry; by the time they exhaust the yolk sac they can rasp on veggies like adults. Good luck!

[Borbi]

Hi Walter,

if we are thinking of the same importer, then they are unfortunately not always too accurate with their identifications (which I don´t blame on them: they generally have to go with the exporter´s IDs and wouldn´t even have the time to individually ID their imports).

Why I am thinking they are not L59:
L59 has a very distinct spotting pattern in dorsal (and caudal) fin. Also the spots in the paired fins are somewhat different than in your average white-spotted Ancistrus.
And looking at your pictures in this thread I have doubts that they could actually be true L59. But, again, it is most telling in the dorsal and caudal fins (and that is visible stressed out or not), and the caudal fins are not fully visible, while the pelvic fins are not 100% certain for ID.
I am currently overseas, as soon as I am back home I will post a picture of one of my A. hoplogenys showing the distinct features of the dorsal.

Cheers, Sandor

[1walter9]

Well, lets see how the juveniles will like like, maybe that make some sure identifying possible.

[jac]

I am currently overseas, as soon as I am back home I will post a picture of one of my A. hoplogenys showing the distinct features of the dorsal.

Cheers, Sandor

I'm looking forward to seeing some new pictures of these pretty fish. There is not a lot of picture material around for these guys.
I'll be checking out this tread, patiently waiting

[1walter9]

Hello everybody, here is the best picture of the male is have so far, is it a L059 Hoplogenys or not?


L059 Adult male by walter-van-der-touw, on
L059 Adult male by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[wijnands]

Is the reseller the big one starting with an R and the habit of posting all species names in full caps? They are not very good at id'ing their stock let alone providing proper information to their customers (clown loaches that max out at 15cm for example )

I think the point Sandor was trying to make is The rusty reddish orange fin rays are the key to this attractive species, but this feature does diminish with age.
And that's tricky to see with the dorsal fin down. Even if it's not hoplo but something more common it's still a good looking fish.

[Borbi]

Hi Walter,

I am still not 100% certain with your pictures, but strongly lean against A. hoplogenys.

This is one of my semi-adult fish when I first introduced him into the tank, hence the extreme stress coloration (but that has since been the first and only time that I saw one with an erect dorsal..).


The point is actually not the reddish edge (it seems to disappear with age, as in most "white-seam" Ancistrus)!
It is the fact that this species presents very few, but comparatively large spots (they can be reddish, depending a bit on mood) in dorsal and caudal fin (also in the other fins, but not that apparent).
This is very different from your average spotted Ancistrus, they (I want to say all of them except A. hoplogenys, but that makes people try to find other examples..) almost always have spots in the fins the same general size as on the body.

And from your pictures I believe to see spots in caudal (and probably also dorsal fin) that are about the same size as those on the body. That would then rule out A. hoplogenys. Your fish instead strongly remind me of A. sp. "Rio Ucayali" (which would be from Peru). But you can best compare yours to my picture, it is really the size of the spots that give this unique species away.

Hope that helps and
Cheers, Sandor

[1walter9]

I will do my best for better pictures, I will have to catch hem for better pictures of dorsal and causal fins, I have to do it by hand, I hope it will not bite me

[1walter9]

Hello everyone, still no good picture of the adult fish, so here some pictures taken with my phone of the fry day 6.

L059 fry day6:

Fry L059 day6 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

Day6:

Fry L059 day6 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[wijnands]

That's a lot of cute little fish

[1walter9]

Here are some pictures from the previous owner, its not with a good sight on the dorsal or caudal fins but its something to compare with.


L59 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


DSC_6107a by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[jac]

These last pictures does look like to be L59. But the picture of the previous fish (your own) is not the same fish..
So either the previous owner has shown you pictures of one species but sold you another..or you might have some L59 in your group but your male is another species and so they might be crossbreeding. Please make the efforts to ID your actual fish in the tank if you want to know for sure.

[1walter9]

I hope i have the time to catch them and take pictures, maybe tomorrow.

I'm 100% sure that the 2 fish that breed are the same, my question is then, what if this issen't a Hoplogenys, what kind of ancistrus I have then????

[1walter9]

Okey, i have catch the male and taken some pictures, i hope it all is clear to ID this Ancistrus, let me now what you think

Ooh, i have read something on a web page about the dark black spot in the dorsal but i can't find it back anymore is this something to ID the Hoplogenys, does anybody now that?

Dad:

Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

Dark spot in dorsal???

Untitled by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

Greetings, Walter

[Borbi]

Walter,

with these pictures I stand by my initial hunch that this is not L59.
They most strongly remind me of Ancistrus sp. "Rio Ucayali"..

Cheers, Sandor

[1walter9]

Good morning, the A. sp Rio Ucayali doesn't has spots on the belly, on mine pictures above they are present.

http://www.l-welse.com/gallery/files/1/ ... 1_1200.jpg

See also http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/ima ... ge_id=9191

[1walter9]

Also, sp. Rio Ucayali has white spots, Hoplogenys has yellow as mine.

Gr, Walter

[1walter9]

To everyone, is there a diffrence in colour pattern between A. sp. Rio Ucayali an Hoplogenys so ID can be made between the two?


Here are photo's of the fry day 10:

Ancistrus Hoplogenys(L059) day 10 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Ancistrus Hoplogenys(L059) day 10 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Ancistrus Hoplogenys(L059) day 10 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[1walter9]

Hello my friends, i have contacted the sales manager of importer Ruinemans.com, this is were the previous owner of my Hoplogenys bought this fish with help of a lfs. I have told him my story of the doubt between Hoplogenys and Rio Ucayali. They have the Hoplogenys in stock wright now, i have sent him my pictures to compare them with the ones he has in stock, after a our he contacted me back and he conform that it is exactly the ones they have wright now and is in there system as A. Hoplogenys.

I will keep the name off this topic until the juvenile shows other color then known.

have a good day, Walter

[Borbi]

Hi Walter,

well, if they have them right now, it would have been a good idea to ask if your contact could find out where the shipment actually had come from..

Anyway, this is what A. hoplogenys looks like 10 days after beginning to feed (sorry, no "nice" pictures).


Unfortunately when I bred A. sp. "Rio Ucayali" some 10 years ago I didn´t even dare try to take pictures of very young fish..

Cheers,
Sandor

[1walter9]

Small update, some pictures of day 33. They are doing great, these are very hard species, where my L183 nest within one month was dead, with this specimen two dead in a month. They are just about 2 cm, and they have pretty dots already.

Day33

Ancistrus Hoplogenys(L059) day 33 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

Day33

Ancistrus Hoplogenys(L059) day 33 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[wijnands]

Hello my friends, i have contacted the sales manager of importer Ruinemans.com, this is were the previous owner of my Hoplogenys bought this fish with help of a lfs. I have told him my story of the doubt between Hoplogenys and Rio Ucayali. They have the Hoplogenys in stock wright now, i have sent him my pictures to compare them with the ones he has in stock, after a our he contacted me back and he conform that it is exactly the ones they have wright now and is in there system as A. Hoplogenys.

Walter, all that means is that they're still selling this fish. It says zilch about the ID. Ruinemans is notoriously bad at ID'ing their fish. I've seen them use latin names that were changed a decade ago. They sell Ancistrus leucostictus. http://www.ruinemans.com/nl-NL/39150/ge ... neter.html
It's also the company that supplies it's customers with cards for their shop tanks that state that a clown loach only gets to 15cm and a common plec to 20.

So... wouldn't put much faith in anything they say about ID of fish.

[1walter9]

Hello, small update, 105 days old yesterday, they grow very good, around 4/5 cm in three and a half months.



2013-09-21 15.06.20 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


2013-09-21 15.05.10 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Day 105 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr


Day 105 by walter-van-der-touw, on Flickr

[Bas Pels]

to translate

Even een update tot en met gisteren (dag 105, bijna drie en een halve maand oud) Ze groeien goed moet ik zeggen, er zijn wat achterblijvers maar dat is normaal, er zijn er bij die 5cm zijn maar gemiddeld zijn ze 4cm.


Just an update until yesterday (day 105, almost three months and half). They are growing nicely, I can say, with a few smaller ones, but that is normal. Some measure 5 cm, but on average they measure 4 cm

After all, not many people outside our country understand Dutch

[1walter9]

Hello Bas, it was a mistake, it was a copy paste from a dutch forum and I forgot to erase the dutch part.

Dutch should be the second language of the world

[Bas Pels]

if only..............

[claro]

hello,

It could be hoplogenys or not?

Milan