Zungaro Zungaro aggression - experience?

[Redtailrob]

Necrocanis, Im glad you mentioned your RTC x TSN.
Mine is an absoulute ******* too!!
Was fine up until about 6 months ago & now bites & harrass's everything!
Its around 26" & literally over a period of 2 Days started attacking both a 28" TSN & a 30" P. Mammoratus, made a right mess of the latter, fortunately this has now all healed & both fish have been moved elsewhere in the fishhouse.
I will keep my P.Lutkeni/Zungaro separate from anything else, a) I dont want them damaging any of my other fishes & b)They're too precious

[richb]

Hi All,

I'm a noob here but long time fishkeeper. I picked up a Zungaro about a year ago as a 3" (8 cm) specimen at the LFS. The LFS had received him/her as an unknown small, predatory cat. The LFS owed me and pushed me to take the unknown (Zungaro) cat. I kept the fish alone in a 15 gallon tank for about 8 months. The fish initially would only eat live fish, no pellets or frozen thawed. The fish grew slowly. At about 8 months, the fish started taking frozen thawed silverside pieces. It immediately began to grow rapidly. It has been a bit over a year and the fish is approaching 2'. I keep it in a 360 gallon with a 3' Pseudodoras, a couple of S. membranaceus, and 3 large clown loaches. All the fish were given to me by a LFS that went out of business. The Zungaro is trying to take the smallest clown loach and either the loaches or the cat needs to be moved. Both big cats are waiting for repairs to be completed on 1,000 gallon tank where they will be moved as soon as it is ready. From my perspective, the feeding aggression is no worse than that of a 2' Sorubimichthys. Both get frozen thawed climbing perch purchased from the local asian market. The climbing perch are about 6 per lb. The cats will each eat 2 at a feeding. I feed them 2 and sometimes 3 times per week. I have a short video of the fish eating a climbing perch off hemostats. I will post it if anybody is interested and I can figure out how.

richb

[Redtailrob]

Great stuff. Would love to see the Video Richb

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hi RichB! Welcome to the Planet. Very pleased to see another big fish keeper here - there aren't many of us here.

Thanks for the info on your Jau. I am quite surprised to learn that it only took live foods for you for the first 8 months. Have you tried hard to wean it off live? It is interesting to see that dead foods (apparently) caused it to grow much faster. It must be that he ate more of that because usually it is other way around – with proper live foods predators grow the fastest.

Your Jau’s growth rate far exceeds that of mine. My oldest must be ~3 years old and still under 1.5’ Have no clue why. Appreciate the tip about the climbing perch. Can you post a photo of it? I need to go check out my local Asian food store then.

As this thread is about Zungaro’s aggression, how do you find yours? We are actually not talking here about a predatory aggression but rather territorial and other non-feeding related types.

I assume you are talking about Pseudodoras holdeni (and I’d like to know why you think it is not the far more common Oxydoras niger) and Sorubimichthys planiceps.

I’ll be very curious to see the photos and vids of your tanks and fish. I do suggest you start your own thread for that purpose in the “South American catfish (Everything else)” forum.

[richb]

Thank you for the kind replies and questions. I am trying to finish the 1000 as quickly as possible. It is almost done. Both the Zungaro and the planiceps are growing extremely fast. Both are taking 10" smelt twice a week. While the smallest clown loach is much smaller than the food the Zungaro is now taking, he is still there. However, all three clown loaches leave when the Zungaro starts shooting around as I approach the tank. Sorry for implying the Pseudodoras was something else; it is a niger. I did not know there was more than one species or would have been more specific. The Pseudodoras is a solid 3 feet. Currently, I plan to move the Pseudodoras, the Sorubimichthys planiceps, and the Zungaro to the 1000. I have never posted to youtube but will try time permitting. I have seen no signs of anything but feeding aggression.I have the space to keep the fish longterm as I have an 8'x24' by 35" deep tub in my heated fishroom. Actually, you can see all three fish at Ted's Fishroom. He visited late last year and has posted a fishroom tour video. To see the video, select the Bireley's Fishroom Tour, currently second on the list at: http://tedsfishroom.com/category/video- ... ish-rooms/

[Viktor Jarikov]

Superb video by Ted and your place is amazing! I assume this is Ted from Seattle, WA, right? The guy who has an 8000 gal tropical pond outside? - http://www.anythingfish.com/ ?

Simply beautiful. Thanks so much for sharing. You really should have it in your own thread to give it full attention it deserves - it is somewhat lost embedded deep in my thread.

I loved your big trio. Hoover the niger is spectacular. Was the zungaro able to swallow that climbing perch? Looked big for it but I think it could do it with some effort. I am also a bit surprised the planiceps could swallow such a big fish too.

Lovely, lovely, lovely.

[richb]

Hi Viktor,

Ted is Ted Judy from Wisconsin. Super nice guy. Neither cat had trouble with the climbing perch. Actually, within a couple of weeks, the Zungaro was taking two at a sitting. I am feeding them smelt now. When I went back to the Asian market, the climbing perch came two to a pound instead of six.

Regards,

Rich

[Redtailrob]

Viktor any update on your Jau?
I moved my smaller specimen, approx. 15" at the weekend into one of my 8 ' foot ponds. No trouble 1st night, 2nd day noticed a few abrasions on the flanks & tail of my 15" & 18" Calophysus / Mammoratus and a couple of marks on the flanks of my Big 18" P. Bass.....cause for concern...... 3rd night/ day.......P.Bass absolutely shredded along the flanks & tail completely white on the L.Mammoratus !!! Jau has been removed again to a separate Pond.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'd guess the pond's too small. In my 1000 gal, my two-footer has been quite fine with a bunch of pond mates, a dozen of large pims, other cats, etc. When I had to add my 3-footer to this pond as an emergency then the two jaus started fighting real bad. They are both beat up and are in a state of a fragile truce at the moment keeping to separate areas of the pond but I really don't know if they both be alive by the time their 4500 gal is ready (again).

[Redtailrob]

3 foot!!! Wow that's a specimen!!
Any pictures Viktor?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Not viewer friendly. They are still in their temporary rubber liner pond. I hope to have them back in a 4500 gal in some weeks. Then will be able to measure and provide pics. Until then, take my loose numbers with a big grain of salt.

The truce has grown into a solid wound-free period. Still fragile. They do keep apart but when they bump into each other accidently, the bigger one flees swiftly.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Low effort, quick and dirty pics of the two Zungaro zungaros. ZZ is ~ 28" (1st pic; dark, still stressed from the move). Zyazyulya is ~ 22" (2nd pic, more relaxed). First hours back in a 4500 gal. Will work on better lighting and, hence, pics. The maxillary barbels on both are just starting to grow back from all the fighting.

[Viktor Jarikov]

...

[Redtailrob]

AMAZING !!!
Thanks for sharing.
No sign of aggression in the bigger environment. Worth noting
I wonder also could the complete lack of any Wood, Caves, Rock formations etc lead them to have no where to " territorialize"?

[Viktor Jarikov]

With weeks passing by, the smaller one Zyazyulya is having more and more tattered caudal and pelvic fins. I am not sure who is the main bully if there is one. Zyazyulya runs away from the bigger one ZZ and from the RTC when they bump into each other. So these must be it. A bit too early to tell what is going to develop. RTC appears to shove around ZZ too a bit. So ZZ retreats every time he bumps into the RTC.

Both Zungaro zungaros are feeding well and are comfortable otherwise. RTC is not himself yet since re-homing.

As for the territories, a 2' Zungaro zungaro should consider a far larger area its territory than a 13'x13'. I cannot be sure but I imagine it'd be in ~ 100'x100' range.

[Viktor Jarikov]

An update on compatibility issues.

Neither zungaro is bothering any other fish in the tank. They never have as much as I could see in the past either, except for preying on much smaller tank mates. The only squabbles I recall occurred between ZZ and the TSN x Marbled Pim hybrid in a 120 gal when both were ~10" (see first page).

So from my limited experience, zungaros do not appear to be as territorially or hierarchically aggressive to other spp as they are sometimes / often written about.

To each other, that's a different story. Upon more observation and time, it became clear that all the damage done to the smaller Zyazyulya is the work of the bigger ZZ. Zyazyulya's fins are getting more tattered. His appetite is, however, superb. I tried turning the lights off in the tank a few nights and just leave a distant fish room nightlight and ZZ has turned real vicious. He chased Zyazyulya with a 100x stronger gusto and an intent to kill.

I will need to separate Zyazyulya sooner than later. For now, with lights on, ZZ stays to his ~80% of the tank and keeps cruising it whilst Zyazyulya chose a "safe" spot and usually stays put unless chased out every now and then or food is served. Then they feed happily side by side while it lasts.

As for hierarchy, the RTC in the tank is the boss and lets anyone know who forgets or simply just in case.

[Viktor Jarikov]

One can watch videos of the two Zungaros here (page 10, Tank 2, 3 vids) http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... &start=180

[Viktor Jarikov]

...

[Redtailrob]

Still very tempted to move one of mine into one of my larger Ponds. But he is soooooo precious to me & virtually impossible to get here in the UK. My RTC /TSN Hybrid is very aggressive, badly damaged by 28" L. Mammoratus & worried it might attack my Jau.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I assume you have completed your move successfully.

In my 4500 gal, ZZ is the alpha, Zazula is the beta over all the rest.

Tank 22, 4500 gal, Mar-Apr 2016, "aggressive" community, RTC 9x, Jau catfish 2x, silver arowana 3x, peacock bass, paroon shark 6x, pacu 7x, TSN 3x, TSNxRTC hybrid catfish, TSNxMarbled Pim hybrid catfish, Apurensis catfish

(missing new additions RTC, TSN, TSNxRTC, Marbled Pim, arowana, barramundi; minus one paroon)

[Viktor Jarikov]

[Redtailrob]

Incredible videos Viktor. Thanks for sharing.

[taksan]

I’ve missed this stuff so much ... love these videos. Those jau’s look fabulous...I never had any luck with my one who died in a heating accident many many moons ago.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thank you guys. You are my teachers and role models.

[taksan]

On the subject of Jau’s .... check this out ! Jau footage starts at 10.20 so you can skip most of the annoying kid making the video
https://youtu.be/SdyjuJU0ekQ[/youtube]

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thank you for that. Yeah, that's the Shedd Aquarium Jau catfish, that's allegedly 20+ years old and 5'-6'. Mine 3-footers are babies next to this behemoth.

[Redtailrob]

Any Updates Viktor?
Mine has now hit the 32" mark and is an absolute Beast !!
Any updated photo's?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Well, well, look what the cats dragged in...

Good to know, Rob. Thank you. You gotta update your jau thread(s).

It's all here bro https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/foru ... st-7892504

Ours are notably over 3 feet now. I am about to update the MFK thread with a video too. I have almost had enough of their bickering. If one local Public Aquarium gives me a good price on the 1"-2" smaller and 4 years younger male Zazula, I may let him go. I'll probably ask for 2-3 grand and see.

[Viktor Jarikov]

A quick update. After tolerating 10 years of problems and bickering, ZZ had been adopted out a year or so ago. Zazula rules its tank now. Currently about 45".

[Redtailrob]

Spectacular!!!