Doras Carinatus

[DrStrangelove]

1) Are all of these catfish Doras Carinatus?
2) If so, you'll note that 1 of the fish (the extra large one) is clearly not 30 cm.
3) Carl Ferraris had these pictures in a 1991 Book on South American Catfish under the name Doras Carinatus. (pages 117-118, Catfish in the Aquarium, 1991, Tetra Press, Dr. Carl Ferraris, Jr.)
4) Mark Sabaj & Birindelli also did an extremely detailed work on the Doras cats around Venezuela and the Amazon using specimens captured and measured in the region. Doras Carinatus is listed there. They describe 21 of various sizes, but the 3 largest of the 21 all came from the Orinoco (which are also the only 3 listed there.) See the reference below and review the table on page 193. The sizes were 550 MM, 500 MM, the smallest was 302 MM. (see discussion on pages 205.)


The reference for the 550 MM is here. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 4169,d.cGE

thanks for your attention.

[Jools]

Well, that's one of the best written queries I've seen in this forum for a while! Great work.

OK, so are you suggesting I increase the max size SL to 550mm with a note to explain that the Orinoco species (and thus that which is most currently likely to be encountered by aquarists) is the only one know to get this big?

Cheers,
Jools

[Viktor Jarikov]

Welcome, to the Planet, friend! I hope you don't mind - I'd like to link your sister thread from MFK here too: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... -Carinatus

Cannot add anything of value to the OP question.

[Birger]

He also did an extremely detailed work on the Doras cats around Venezuela and the Amazon where he captured and measured many Doras cats. Doras Carinatus is listed there. He found 21 of various sizes, but the 3 largest of the 21 all came from the Orinoco (which are also the only 3 he found there.) See the reference below and review the table on page 193. The largest was 550 MM.

To clarify, you are mentioning a paper by Carl Ferraris but link to a paper by Mark Sabaj & Birindelli, is this a typo or is there another paper?

Birger

[DrStrangelove]

He also did an extremely detailed work on the Doras cats around Venezuela and the Amazon where he captured and measured many Doras cats. Doras Carinatus is listed there. He found 21 of various sizes, but the 3 largest of the 21 all came from the Orinoco (which are also the only 3 he found there.) See the reference below and review the table on page 193. The largest was 550 MM.

To clarify, you are mentioning a paper by Carl Ferraris but link to a paper by Mark Sabaj & Birindelli, is this a typo or is there another paper?

Birger

This is correct. The abstract is written by Mark Sabaj & Birindelli. Their references were to several sources including work by Dr. Ferraris. I edited the original to avoid any later confusion.

[DrStrangelove]

Well, that's one of the best written queries I've seen in this forum for a while! Great work.

OK, so are you suggesting I increase the max size SL to 550mm with a note to explain that the Orinoco species (and thus that which is most currently likely to be encountered by aquarists) is the only one know to get this big?

Cheers,
Jools

I think that is a reasonable approach at this point. I sent my query to one of the authors of the abstract. I'll let you know when/if I get a reply.

[DrStrangelove]

Just an update. The three specimens in question were all found in the rio Carapo (trib rio Paragua) by Ferraris on 2/24/90 (see page 201 for specimen sources.) It's possible that one of the specimens is the one in the picture.

Specimens, size are

AMNH 91330D 550MM
ANSP 187157 500MM
AMNH 90798 302MM

[DrStrangelove]

Hi all

Nice! I received a reply from one of the authors of the abstract (Mark Sabaj Perez) who confirmed that 300MM is incorrect, that 550MM is correct, and that the specimen he examined was obtained from Dr Carl Ferraris. He agrees it may in fact be the skeleton from the one in the picture.

Cheers

[Birger]

Have made a submission on this, once it is vetted check it out, see if it is suitable.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this.

Birger

[Jools]

Dr. SL,

Update now applied, can you confirm as you intended.

Cheers,

Jools

[DrStrangelove]

Excellent!

Ferraris (in his book mentioned in the OP) was particular about certain characteristics of these catfish ("sierra cats" as he called them), feeding in groups of hundreds, sifting substrate of mud and sand, and moving to lower depths during daylight (as opposed to nestling under logs or rocks.)

I'll try to add more confirmation on that, hopefully one day with a group of my own as evidence.

[necrocanis]

Nice! Congrats on a job well done!!! I knew you would get it done with how well you were presenting your information. This is a very important update for those wanting to keep this species. It was a real eye opener when you posted the information on just how large this species gets. I love to see our knowledge of catfish progress.