Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum has been eating gravel.. Help!

[Mreque]

Hey, ive just got a new Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum ( Shovelnose tiger catfish ) And i noticed that the pet store had english "Seastone" gravel ? and my catfish has been eating it.. he is just on the bottom of the tank and is heavy as hell.. about 15cm long with a laaaaarge belly full of stones... What can i do ? Please help a swedish guy out!

I have fine sand in my tank but the problem is from the petshop..

[Viktor Jarikov]

Welcome!

If these are the stones indeed and he does not regurgitate them, it sounds like he is a toast - he will not be able to pass so many. Usually fish regurgitate things they have problems digesting. One can perhaps try and help the natural regurgitation - some say (contact RedtailRob for more info; these are his words to me) to try & feed a piece of thick animal fat, the thick edge of a large steak for example. Catfish struggle to digest large amounts of animal fat and will usually try and regurgitate the meal along with the remainder of its stomach contents.

I think I remember some one say something about a prune too.

Also, I did wash the stomach and/or induced regurgitation in my catfish too: see this http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... egurgitate (Rob's piece is from that link too). Pull the fish out into a shallow basin with water and stick your fingers in its throat. The stress alone may induce vomiting. Keep the finger in the throat and gently massage the belly and the stones towards the throat/mouth and out.

One can stick a syringe with a soft plastic tube (like an air line) in fish's throat and force feed a fish - this has been done, so I assume the same could be done to wash out the stomach's content with a large enough syringe.

There are times fish eat gravel on purpose when they are plugged up (intestinally) but this sounds like a suicide.

[Mreque]

He is ondly 15 cm long thats about..6 inches. and he´s rly fat and you can clearly feel the stones on the outside of he´s belly.
Im going to turn that petshop upside down tomorrow..

Im going to try to get it out tomorrow since he is pretty stressed from the 2 hour drive in a plastic bag from the petshop.

the poor thing cant even swim... just dragging its belly around in the sand.

Ty for reply! Will come back with updates on the situation!

[Mreque]

Just tried, he is to small... he just made sounds of anger, like.. wierd noises... il wait and see i guess.. hurts me to see him suffer =( wish i could take him to a vet..

[Viktor Jarikov]

Yeah, I realize he is only 6". If your pinky is too big to fit in this throat, try something else, soft, plasticky, slippery but firm enough to open up his throat and let the water in and out of the stomach...

... the syringe thing is the only other thing I can think of... other than massaging the stones out without sticking the fingers or anything else in his throat. He should start regurgitating, hopefully, from the massage and the stress alone.

[Mreque]

So.. Pinky update. Got like.. 25 out of 35 stones out.. he is still heavy, and i broke one of he´s "side fins" ? ... That heals tho ? He cant move it atm...

So i will try more tomorrow so i dont kill him with the stress, but thank you so much for the tip. Now im a fish surgeon! xD

maby he can pass the remaining stones by himself ?

[Viktor Jarikov]

M: So.. Pinky update. Got like.. 25 out of 35 stones out..
VJ: Good job! Describe please for posterity how you did it. Details may help others later.

M: he is still heavy, and i broke one of he´s "side fins" ? ... That heals tho ?
VJ: Yes, unless you broke off too big a piece of the pectorial fin and the blood has been spewing.

M: He cant move it atm...
VJ: Do you mean because of the leftover stones and the stress? Or something else?

M: So i will try more tomorrow so i dont kill him with the stress, but thank you so much for the tip. Now im a fish surgeon! xD
VJ: Don't let it go into your head

M: maby he can pass the remaining stones by himself ?
VJ: I can only guess that if the stones are not bigger than his intestine diameter, he could perhaps pass one or a few but not 10. Even with 1-2 stones there is a risk he may not succeed... and it can take the normal 7-10 days or a month or two, during which time he may refuse to eat (for such a small fish and after such a horrifying ordeal, it'll likely be a death verdict).

[Mreque]

My english is a bit rusty but il try to, He dosnt move he´s fin but i didnt brake it off. Just dislocated it.

Today when we woke up i saw the little bastard swimming around happily and i found 10+ stones on the bottom of the tank.

I used a seringe with plastic tubing on and pressed it down he´s throat but not too far, and filled him with water while i held him upside down.
Then i slipped my pinky down he´s throat and massaged the stones forward untill i felt them on my finger, i then moved my pinky up and down just a little to give space for the stones to fall out. I held him mouth down tail up when i did this.

I will upload a video and link it since my fiance recorded a part of it.

M: he is still heavy, and i broke one of he´s "side fins" ? ... That heals tho ?
VJ: Yes, unless you broke off too big a piece of the pectorial fin and the blood has been spewing.

There was no bleeding but i dislocated it or "Broke it" but its still attached. He can swim properly now anyway.

Im going to upload some pictures on before and after and the video just gotta get em on my comp.

Cant thank you enough for your tips, You helped save this beautiful fish =)

[Mreque]

Update 02:29 Sweden. He is vomiting ? stones here and there and now he´s belly is completely flat. =D yey! Counting 70+ stones now, size from 2-3mm to 4-5mm.

I guess when we removed the large quantity of stones and stomach pumped him he was able to get the remaining out himself. Will try to feed him tomorrow, wasnt intrested in the other fishes food.

He´s in a 150 gallon ( 600 Liter ) 140x70x60 tank with a fluval Fx5 2700L/h and a Eheim 600L/h both cannisters.
and he´s tankmates are 4x Red oscar, 1x Millet ( Crenicichla alta ) 1x Jack dempsey 4x Chromobotia macracanthus 3x Glyptoperichthys gibbiceps and some small ancidus that somehow has avoided being eaten ( Her two guys got swallowed by the millet )

Havent uploaded the Video yet but i will make it a bit more professional then the rest of the posts =D

And again, thank you so much for being there for us and guiding me!

[Viktor Jarikov]

M: ..... I used a seringe with plastic tubing on and pressed it down he´s throat but not too far, and filled him with water while i held him upside down. Then i slipped my pinky down he´s throat and massaged the stones forward untill i felt them on my finger, i then moved my pinky up and down just a little to give space for the stones to fall out. I held him mouth down tail up when i did this. I will upload a video and link it since my fiance recorded a part of it.
VJ: What an excellent job! You've done it far better than I did with my fish.

M: ... There was no bleeding but i dislocated it or "Broke it" but its still attached. He can swim properly now anyway.
VJ: Good.

M: Im going to upload some pictures on before and after and the video just gotta get em on my comp.
VJ: pics and vids are always the best!

M: Cant thank you enough for your tips, You helped save this beautiful fish =)
VJ: I gave you merely raw ideas, you did superbly so far. I'll take 1% credit.

M: Update 02:29 Sweden. He is vomiting ? stones here and there and now he´s belly is completely flat. =D yey! Counting 70+ stones now, size from 2-3mm to 4-5mm.
VJ: Wow! That's a LOT for a 6" skinny fish!!! I wonder why he did it.

M: I guess when we removed the large quantity of stones and stomach pumped him he was able to get the remaining out himself. Will try to feed him tomorrow, wasnt intrested in the other fishes food.
VJ: It'd be ideal to make sure there are no stones left before trying to feed him. Now that you know how they feel, can you massage his belly again to see if you'd feel any? TSNs relish fleshy foods. All 20 or so of mine always liked frozen/thawed fish, whole and pieces, shrimp, prawn, mussel, crab, squid, octopus, etc. etc. They never liked any pellets, not even high-protein catfish ones. If he refuses dead foods, this is one case where I'd even recommend live feeders (appropriate ones, like guppies and cichlids = lean ones; goldfish are too fatty) to bring him around after such a horrifying ordeal. Usually, I am firmly against live feeders.

M: He´s in a 150 gallon ( 600 Liter ) 140x70x60 tank with a fluval Fx5 2700L/h and a Eheim 600L/h both cannisters and he´s tankmates are 4x Red oscar, 1x Millet ( Crenicichla alta ) 1x Jack dempsey 4x Chromobotia macracanthus 3x Glyptoperichthys gibbiceps and some small ancidus that somehow has avoided being eaten ( Her two guys got swallowed by the millet ) Havent uploaded the Video yet but i will make it a bit more professional then the rest of the posts =D
VJ: Sounds like a great, way over-filtered (which is wonderful) set-up. Can't wait to see the pics and vids.

[Mreque]

Here´s the video for now =) Gonna get some pictures up here too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSh28GtmQ4s&feature=plcp

[Viktor Jarikov]

Excellent job and perfect reporting. Will be helpful for many. The only thing I'd do is I'd let the fish breath a bit longer between the extracting sessions to regain the oxygen level in the blood and rest a bit.

[Mreque]

Yeah i had him up for long some of the times, But i also changed the water i had him in 4-5 times so that the tempreature and the oxygen levels in the water remained stable.
Water from he´s tank ofc =)

[Mreque]

Yes so here is some pics and info, Before, Video During (with some swedish) , and after.
And a pic of the tank, 1 day before the new fish arrived tho.

The poor thing with rocks in he´s belly.

You clearly see something is wrong here.

Here is what we did on video, Took too long to upload the video and attach it here so its a youtube link =).
I pumped water into he´s belly with a seringe and a plastic tube that i slide in about 5-10 mm down he´s throat, did this a few time to get the stones out.
After every stomach pump i held him mostly with he´s face down towards the water and tail upwards while i had my pinky finger down he´s throat so that i could feel the stones i was massageing towards he´s throat.
When i felt it right on my finger i moved my pinky up and down to make room for the stones to come out ( Wath the gills you dont want to touch them, might cause severe damage )

I repeted this untill i got like 60-70% of the stones out. I changed the water 4-5 times during this ( Water from he´s tank ofc ) so there was plenty of oxygen and the tempreature didnt drop.

Here´s the video, unedited with swedish talk and some grumting from the fish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSh28GtmQ4s&feature=plcp

After we got most of the stones out we let him back in the tank. He was exhausted so we turned the lights off.
The day after we swiched the lights on to see him swimming around ( He could barely move the day before ) And i found 10+ stones at the bottom of the tank.
And a few hours later he had vomited up one more stone, So i guess he could gett the rest up after the larger quantity of rocks were removed

Now he has a soar belly and a broken fin and some minor scratches.

This is him today:

2 days after the "operation"

He´s looking a bit thin and roughed up but the other fish in the tank leaves him alone.
Added some Easylife today to reduce stress and i will also be adding some salt to prevent fungus. Allways add some salt to my tank every water change, just a little bit tho so the salt levels doesent increase.

I hope this can help someone and if you have trouble understanding my crappy english just PM me or write in the thread and il try to explain it better.

Anyway, This is our 600 Liter / 150 Gallon tank 140x70x60 with the fluval fx5 2700L/h and a eheim canister at 600L/h:

Our 600Liter Tank.

Might be alot of spelling errors, sorry for that .

Will post pictures and info about he´s progress etc in this thread.

[Viktor Jarikov]

... I changed the water 4-5 times during this ( Water from he´s tank ofc ) so there was plenty of oxygen and the tempreature didnt drop.

Another example of excellent, careful thinking.

Very good job! Yes, please come back every now and then and tell us how the fish is doing. You do know that, if he survives, he will outgrow your 600 liter tank in about 6-10 months, right? If fed properly, TSNs hit 1.5'-2' in the first year of their life (starting the count from a 1"-3" baby), ~3' in 2-3 more years.

PS IMO your English is quite good and, most importantly, clear.

[Mreque]

Hello, a little update. He is not eating yet and he´s got a big wound that seems to be healing well. On he´s belly..

He is calm and seems to be doing well, But you never know..
Atleast he has not died from internal bleeding wich i assume would have killed earlyer. Im going to get him some nice frozen food and see what happens in a week =)

Pics comming soon!

[Mreque]

And, i know he will outgrow the current tank =)

[Mreque]

Miniudate, Just ate 3 big carnivous sinking tablets.

[Viktor Jarikov]

So there is a glimpse of hope at least. Excellent.

[Mreque]

Hey again, its been a while and i havent got around to taking any pictures. So much work atm.. But he is alive and well, healed nicely and eating like a pig. Lovin those Carnivour Pellets

He sure has space in he´s belly for them ^^ Since he streched it out with stones haha! he takes about 7-10 pellets a day and making noises from time to time, that grumping noice to scare away other fish