crossbreeding different bn pleco color morphs?

[asian guy]

Hi i'm new to this site and I am wondering which Bristlenose Pleco color morph is the most dominant?

What will i get if i crossed combinations of these?

Super red bn pleco
Green dragon bn pleco
Albino bn pleco
Marble/calico bn pleco(are marbles and calicos the same thing?)
regluar bn pleco( what color are they?, i found people labeling light browns and pitch black bn plecos the same thing?)

Is the long fin dominant or the short fin?

Known info:my albinos breeds true Albino, his parents were albino and he came from a batch of !00% albino, not sure if my other ones breed true, but lets say they do in this situation.

Any help or knowledge is appreciated.

Thanks

[MatsP]

If they are truly a colour morph, then the natural brown colour will dominate, just like brown eyes in humans dominate over blue eyes. [Of course, just like humans with brown eyes can have a blue gene, fish with can be brown with albino, red, calico, etc genes, which means that the offspring of a Calico with a Brown fish could very well turn out to be albino].

I'm not aware of a Green form of the common species (not saying it doesn't exist), so this may well be a different species. I'm pretty certain that a "pitch black" isn't the same species [that is fish that are black when adult - the juvenile common bristlenose is more grey/black in colour, but turn more of a brown colour when they grow older]. Crossing different species of fish, also known as hybridisation, is considered a bad thing.

I believe (from what I read) that there are also not just one form of albino (since it's a multiple step process to produce brown colour, there are several points in the "machinery" that can go wrong, and the "factory" ends up not producing brown colour) - of course, since it's a dominant trait to be brown, if you cross Albino type 1 with Albino type 2, you end up with brown fish.

I'm not sure of the genetics behind long fins, but I would expect them to be recessive (not dominant), based on the fact that it wouldn't be a good trait for wild fish. Dominant "bad" traits tend to die out. Of course, it's possible that it's a trait that has mutated, rather than a combinatorial effect of inbreeding.

--
Mats

[Shane]

I'm not aware of a Green form of the common species (not saying it doesn't exist), so this may well be a different species.

These are just another mutant form of

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

as far as I can tell. They are not particularly green, nor dragon-like. They ship from the same breeders offering longfins, calicos, "super reds," etc, etc. There is also a "long-finned green dragon."

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1312567449

Asian Guy, I am not sure you will find the information you seek here to be honest. The reproduction of these animals is generally frowned on by many catfish people.

-Shane

[Suckermouth]

Hi i'm new to this site and I am wondering which Bristlenose Pleco color morph is the most dominant?

It's probably the wild type.

What will i get if i crossed combinations of these?

Super red bn pleco
Green dragon bn pleco
Albino bn pleco
Marble/calico bn pleco(are marbles and calicos the same thing?)
regluar bn pleco( what color are they?, i found people labeling light browns and pitch black bn plecos the same thing?)

The appearance of most of these strange color morphs is relatively recent. Maybe the breeders themselves know some of this information but I haven't seen a lot of it out there. Albinism, of course, is recessive to normal coloration.

Is the long fin dominant or the short fin?

In zebrafish, long fin is known to be dominant.

[guysmiley]

Thanks, Aisain Guy, for asking this question. I was about to post the same when I stumbled across your post.

[thefredpit]

I actually just picked up 4 calico from 1 guy and 2 green dragons from another breeder who successfully crossed the super red and the calico. Basically he ended up with the red instead of the normal albino. He in now breeding out the calico to leave him with a LF super red

[Jaycal]

Unless you breed the same color morph to eachother, i.e super red X super red, calico x calcico you will get browns. The dominate gene is brown. So if you take a super red and breed it to blue eye albino you will get browns. Crossing a longfin and short fin you will get a mix of both.

[apistomaster]

Unless you breed the same color morph to eachother, i.e super red X super red, calico x calcico you will get browns. The dominate gene is brown. So if you take a super red and breed it to blue eye albino you will get browns. Crossing a longfin and short fin you will get a mix of both.

The genetics of the different morphs varies.
The simplest cross is homozygous normal X true red eye albino = 100% F1 Heterozygous Normal.
100% F1 Heterozygous Normal X 100% F1 Heterozygous Normal = 25% Albino, 25% Homozygous normal and 50% heterozygous normal with recessive albino genes. You can't tell which normal phenotypes are homozygous or hetero without test breeding.
The other morphs seem to be partially dominant so you are back to test breeding experiments.
I have never been able to see what makes a "Green Dragon" a "Green Dragon" but if they exist in long fin morph I suspect that trait is also partially dominant.
Here are my thoughts and opinions.
It can take many experimental crosses to establish the probabilities from whatever stock you are starting out with.
It would make a good science project but it wouldn't be a money maker.
If you want to breed to sell to shops it is possible to have a few pairs and get some of nearly every morph so you can offer a wider selection. Albinos and long fin albinos fetch the most at retail shops. Maybe reds if they are colorful enough.
The Bushy Nose Morph genetics are a mess as far as obtaining pure breeding stocks of reds, calicos, "Green dragons" and long fin variants thereof. Just the normal and albino are fairly quick and easy to establish pure lines from whatever you start with. Still looking at about 2 years of work at the minimum.

[bekateen]

Unless you breed the same color morph to eachother, i.e super red X super red, calico x calcico you will get browns. The dominate gene is brown. So if you take a super red and breed it to blue eye albino you will get browns. Crossing a longfin and short fin you will get a mix of both.

Hi All,
I've got two female albino BNs. My LFS lacks male albinos, but it has male super red BN for sale. We've never bred plecos before, but I don't want to cross these two color morphs if all the offspring will be brown. Is the above post accurate? If we cross male super reds with albino females, will we get all brown fry?
Thanks, Eric

[Nabobmob1]

IMO if you're that successful breeding tank strains, leave them and focus on the natural beauties.

[bekateen]

IMO if you're that successful breeding tank strains, leave them and focus on the natural beauties.

Matt, I wish we were that good, but as I mentioned, we've never bred plecos before. Since we already have the two albinos and they're both females, we were hoping to get at least one male to try and get them to spawn. The LFS only has male super reds in stock; but we don't want to get them if all the fry will come out brown.

Cheers, Eric

[Karsten S.]

Hello Eric,

yes, as albinism is recessive it is probable that there will be no albinos among the offspring (F1).
However, if this male should be heterozygous wrt. albinism (and it's the same "type") you could get around 50% albinos.

Cheers,

[bekateen]

Thanks for spelling out the possibilities, Karsten. We have no way of knowing the source or quality of the super reds. Given your information, I think we'll pass on the super reds and just wait till males of the albinos come back to town.

Needless expansion of our fish stock avoided.

Cheers, Eric

[todda]

I have breed super reds x green dragons before and got browns
picture of my super reds(german strain) x longfin red calico - 1st generation. I have 2nd generation lf super red calico x sf super red(german strain) on eggs right now. Hopefully some cleaner lf super red calicos in the 2nd generation