The update on my synos and their situation.

[Maccus]

The one with the wound on the side, Abraham has had two bio bandage treatments and is back in the main tank. Wound is about half of the size it was before. Today I saw another one( not sure who yet) with a scratch on the side so my conclusion now is that for some reason they have started fighting. Which is odd because they seem to be huddling together without me moving out flower pot caves. They don't have to huddle together, there's a nice big cave on the opposite end of the tank from them.
*sighs*...Times like this is when you want your fish to talk back to you.

The sick one with the suspected internal bacterial infection, Killington I'm losing hope for. He's not getting better. I'm just trying another round of antibotics today after about a week of Fish mox. I'm going to try Maracyn plus this time around.

Current plans for this tank :

- A second canister filter. Trying for either a Fluval 406 or a Rena Filstar X3-4 I can't have ammonia raise sometimes when I clean the main filter.
- More caves/hiding places. I added in a floating log that Abrahma just loved in the sick tank. Since I'm putting my money into a filter upgrade, gotta see what I can stick in the tank for free. I hope I can avoid re-homing.
- A UV sterilizer on my spring wishlist or pending a new job so I can save up more quickly.
- If Killington dies, I think want a custard cat ( syno nigrita)...But I don't know... It's possible that no new synodontis will do...Maybe that's a going to be a"hole" that just cannot be filled by another synodontis. Besides the fact that a custard cat seems unobtainable. The shop with the most synodontis species I've ever seen has never heard of them.

[Maccus]

The strange mysterious synodontis saga drags on. All hell is breaking loose in that tank.
All synodontis in the main tank have nasty scratches from presumed fighting after living peacefully together two years. One is even suddening missing par of the top caudal fin( I hope they grow these back).
A huge new "cave" is on order with fingers crossed that this calms down soon, however adding an extra cave already haven't made any difference.
Despite that each syno could sit alone in a cave, they choose to huddle in the back corner and apparently hurt each other.
Nearly daily water changes are being undertaken with hopes that no diseases will set on these injured synos. They have also become finicky and stopped accepting their pellets so I stopped feeding for now.

Nobody I ask on a certain well know forum that shall remain un-named seems to have a clue what is going on, other then..."your water quality must be bad"...And if I say it's been tested multiple times and they are getting water water every second day, they ask again if my water quality is bad.
How am I supposed to respond other then repeating myself which solves nothing. I agree water quality is an important issue and it was the first thing I checked when I started problem solving. They can't seem to understand that when the water tested good, I still had a sick fish on my hands.

Sickie tank continues with attempts at weight gaining as he still has hallow spots next to his head, no plans to return him to the main tank, even if he fully recovers. The way it's going I will be setting up another sickie tank at my rental house, clearing out fish that are already in that tank and moving the most injured syno over there in leiu of figuring out what's going on. .

[unblinded]

Do you use water from a public water supply (city water)?

[Maccus]

I do at the rental house, but not at my parents house where the synodontis are.
Also, the clown plecos in the next tank over are doing fine.

Something really weird is going on, I've never had synodontis "go crazy" like this before. I wondered if my younger trio of synodontis have just reached sexual maturity and this may be the reason for the issues. This would help explain why my oldest syno is sick too if a younger male was beating on him.

[Birger]

Despite that each syno could sit alone in a cave, they choose to huddle in the back corner and apparently hurt each other.

Often when they are being pushed around(for example by a pair of spawning substrate cichlids) they will react this way. I looked back through your posts but did not find anywhere that mentioned what fish are in with these Synodontis...is there other fish in the tank? Please list.

Birger

[Maccus]

No tank-mates for the synodontis besides each other, it's a synodontis species tank. Years ago I had cichlds with them and at one time , a blue eyed pleco. I have been thinking of adding a large killifish called a blue gularis sometime, I don't know if I will.

[Maccus]

I'm going to need a solution soon as to why the synos suddenly started fighting as I cannot continue to drive out every day to do daily water changes, nor do I have enough equipped tanks to isolate each syno.
Ironically I do have enough spare tanks to separate each one and maybe even enough extra filters...Just don't think they'd like to sit in the basement at the rental house at 50F.

If I luck out and get a new job, I'd be willing to throw money at this mystery problem. If I don't land that new job, then maybe the best option is to start re-homing them before whatever the problem is leads to more of them getting sick.

[Birger]

Okay, we would like to help but what we need is information all in one place, you have different threads on the same subject and they are hard to follow. We need information like water conditions, tank size, age, food etc. and please keep it in the same thread.

You go into depth to tell the given names of the fish(eg.Killington etc.) but are sparce with pertinent information that is relevant...so it is hard to help you.

What I am thinking at the moment with limited info is that you have six adult Synodontis eupterus in one tank, by themselves...which is great as long as the tank is a fair size, I would not keep a full grown group of six in a tank any smaller than 125 gal. You seem to be continually messing with the tank which starts them sorting out the pecking order everytime.
Water chasnges are good and continue with them once or twice a week that is all these fish really need, but also consider letting the tank stabilize,for eg. do not move around the caves, plants etc. these fish only need good water good food and enough space.

With synos there is usually always the weakest member, this is your tell on how things are going in the tank. If it is fairly healthy than things have stabilized...if not than we need all the information to make a good call that is not a guess. You have to remember we can not see the fish so ultimately it is up to you to make the call or give as much info as you can.

I have always pictured a group of these in a large enough tank with a schoal of Phenacogrammus interruptus (Congo Tetras), this would be an impressive sight, durable and simple to care for.

Birger

[Maccus]

Ok, going back...

Tank size is 150 gal.
Age of the tank is a bit uncertain. Only the older synodontis trio were in the tank to begin with as it used to be a cichlid community tank.
I usually feed them Kens fish catfish pellets as a staple diet.
Temps are around 76F.
Not worried about ammonia, nitrites and nitrites because I've been giving them so many water changes to try and avoid fungus getting on their fighting injuries.

I was "messing with the tank" because I was trying to trouble shoot it. I haven't moved anything in that tank since I cleaned half of the gravel and moved out two of the caves for the sickie (Killington). The rest of the caves/flowerpots remained in place.

I would have never considered congo tetras as tankmates, had some nice ones at a fish auction last year.
It's possible I might add tank-mates eventually, probably going to hold out on tank-mates until/if the tank moves in with me at my rental house.
As it stands now, the rental house has some problems such as colder basement due to contaimated insulation being removed and a broken sink in the basement making water changes difficult, which is why I still have that tank at my parents' house. The idea of going back to water changes by bucket on my largest tank is not appealing to me.

Not thinking even thinking that far due to all the current issues with this tank. If they keep on fighting, there's not much I can do to correct it. My next largest tanks are fifty five gal. I do have an empty fifty five gal in the garage without a stand. If they are fighting in a hundred and fifty gal, I don't think putting one or two together in a fifty five gal is going to work out either. Nether is isolating each one in their own thirty gal appealing to me.
And honestly the reason I got the younger trio was to increase my chances of getting a spawning ( I guess I can forgot about that too if they fight).

My next plan of action if necessary would be clear out a thirty gal and put the most injured syno in there if needed. Currently two that tank houses a pair of killifish and a pleco. I'd have to experiment to see if the pair of killies could go into my pleco/danio tank since I can't put them into a smaller tank as the male was beating on his mate in a ten gal.

[MatsP]

I'm sure you have posted it somewhere, but what species are these synos, and what size are they?

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

I really feel for you, Maccus, but don't have enough experience/knowledge to really help you. Synos fight, people say. I have had many of them, up to about 50 different ones, including from 6 to 10 euptera (5"-9" TL) (all in a 55 gal at one point for almost a year!). When I had only 4-10 of synos in say one 120 gal tank, they would mostly have separate hiding places and a clear pecking order. With large syno communities, they would often huddle together without ever wounding each other.

Never had such problems - sometimes they would chase each other away from their territory but no wounds. For instance, at some point I had the following pecking order: Angelicus > Large euptera > medium euptera > medium hybrid etc.

The difference of my situation from yours is that my tanks have always been heavily diversified with plenitude of other fish and catfish in any given tank. Another noteworthy difference is that I always used a lot of plastic vegetation on top of having a bunch of rocks, flower pots, etc. See here, for instance, photos throughout the thread: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... t=+120+gal

I have never had a group of only euptera in one tank to be able to help you with something more. I'd suggest to keep observing (to make sure it is the fighting but maybe mating behavior or something else, like sharp edges on the furniture). If you'd choose to try to imitate my tanks, you may wanna throw in some plant cover (plastic), add good amount of other fish, and have no tank lights.

[Maccus]

I don't care much for plastic plants, but I'll throw some in there if it helps.

I took a picture today of one of the injured synos with my cell phone. I have a feeling whatever the outcome some people won't believe me that they suddenly started fighting after living together peacefully for years. It's been difficult taking pictures of them as they keep hiding bhind the flower pot so I couldn't get much.
Ellen was missing today and I found her sensibly hiding behind the big flower pot on the other side of the tank. I got a worried that maybe she died of her injuries until I saw barbels poking out from the top.

[Maccus]

Got the new "cave" and put in nearly in the middle of the syno tank. Not interest yet. Just want to huddle in the corner.
Thye are getting thin from not eating and I still see most of the shrimps I put in last night on the bottom.
If anyone experienced comes along, how long should I wait to see if the mystery problems get resolved before starting the adoptions?.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'm sure you have posted it somewhere, but what species are these synos, and what size are they?

Mats, they are euptera. Sub-adults and adults, 6 of them, from memory.

If anyone experienced comes along, how long should I wait to see if the mystery problems get resolved before starting the adoptions?.

IMO, this can be read in more than one way, e.g. "anyone experienced comes along" here, on the forum, or physically in your neck of the woods? So, what are you asking? If you opt for giving them away, it is your call. I do not think anyone would advise you to part with your pets.

[Maccus]

I think if the cause of their sudden aggression towards each cannot be corrected, it would be for the best as I cannot provide them with a larger tank.
I did find a link with synodontis who like mine lived together peacefully for years and then suddenly started fighting. Not sure how well this applies as I know this species is more aggressive then other synodontis.
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/ ... ility.aspx

[Birger]

Sorry, more questions.


What kind of traffic goes by this tank, is it busy?

Is there any new vibrations, music, washing machines nearby?

Have yoiu changed conditioner used during water changes?

Is there a background on the tank?

These fish should get along in this size tank even with a little fighting and competition going on.

Is there any way you can get an overall shot with a camwera?
Birger

[Maccus]

No problem, ask away..

No, not much traffic, they are in the basement. However there is a cat that likes to sit near the tank and watch them.

There is a washing machine somewhat near by, however that has always been there.

No background, I used to have one many years ago, I think it was falling down so I never put it back up.

I don't use water conditioner because it's well water where they are. So I only used water conditioner for the sickie tank.

That's what I thought that they have enough space, as I said this has never happened before. The bitten tail was when I got most concerned about the fighting as this seemed like a more serious attack. They have always been competitive among each other as in the higher ranking syno eating first/most.

I'm not sure if I can get a whole tank picture. I never tried because the tank isn't much of a show tank with the plain ole flower pots.

At least it doesn't seem to be getting much worse for now. I saw another nipped dorsal today.

[Maccus]

OK, it seems the fighting is less fierce lately. More little scratches and fin nipping. While they still huddle in the corner, now it seems only four are there huddling. This strange huddling behavior seems to be part of whatever the root of the problem is.
I noticed they seemed to be getting darker so I ran water tests again as this can be a symptom of bad water quality. Tested for nitrites and ammonia just to make sure.

I've been trying to get a larger tank for my three goldfish and was thinking of housing my disabled syno, Killington with them. I did find someone successfully keeping a synodontis with goldfish. I know very little about handicapped fish so I'm not sure if this mix would work out. Killington seems to get around just fine, but knowing how competively synos can normally act towards each other, I would assume one with this kind of disability would get bullied and pushed away from food. If this is not an option, I will use one of the two tanks the goldfish vacate.

If I need to, I have an empty fifty five gal I can use, but it doesn't have a stand which makes water changes harder and I would need help bringing it in from the garage.

[Maccus]

I can't see it as healthy for fish to constantly have open sores so I keep hoping for a resolution before an infection gets in those wounds.
Even if wounds heal up, they aquire new wounds.
I have not heard a peep from my new job so without it, I cannot get them the protection of a UV sterilizer.
I have no heard a peep on the goldfish tank I made an offer on either so I could remove some of them from the tank to cut down on the fighting.
I have my doubts even if anyone would be interested in adopting fish with fighting wounds. I wish I could have prevented this whole mess, but since I didn't know that synodontis suddenly break out fighting like this, so I guess I couldn't have prevented it.

I tried taking a picture of my whole synodontis tank and only have managed to take half pictures.
I have decided my next move si to drive to the shop in Albany, NY. They have more synodontis for sale then I've ever seen. If nothing else, it's a fancy shop and I could get some live worms there for my disabled syno, Killington.

[PinkButterfly]

I'm not trying to be snarky but have you actually seen them fighting? After reading all the posts, my first impression, if you haven't actually seen them fighting, is something is scaring them and the wounds are a result of them bashing/hitting themselves on objects in the tank or each other. Mine will react in a flightly manner if spooked, and my Redhooks have knocked their scales off hitting each other if spooked and dashing around the tank. I removed everything except one large tree root ornament and the Syno's log because of their behavior if spooked. I have two lights on my 125-gal tank but always leave one off for a dark side, which the Syno prefers for his log. The Synco seems very content to eat on the lighted side and swim when it wants and then ease off into the darker side to its log.