Synodontis Lucipinnis (aka dwarf petricola) with betta?

[igol66]

Hi,

I have 6 lucipinnis, and I would like to add a betta to their tank. Would they get along? I don't see a problem, I had 2 bettas in community tanks in the past and they were peaceful. But the synos get annoyed with him? If the synos are already settled, does that mean any fish that might be added now will be bullied, or the other way round, if I add something like a betta, would it leave the lucipinnis' alone?

[unblinded]

These 2 species would do fine together. Bettas tend to hang out more toward the middle or surface of the tank & Syno Lucippinis hang out at the bottom & venture to the middle & top occasionally.

[sidguppy]

I disagree;

these 2 species need completely different waterparametyers

the Betta is a south East Asian fish from the rain forest and the rice padi; it likes softer shallow water, bogwood, very little if any current and organic compounds in the water like peat or oak-leaves

the synodontis lucipinnis needs clear hard alcaline water with a lot of oxygen and it cannot handle soft water or organic compounds.
it should be kepty in a group or shoal in a roomy tank with a lot of rock work and Tanganyikan or Malawian cichlids.

these 2 should not be in 1 tank

if you like to combine Syno's and Betta's; go for a rainforest species like Synodontis nigriventris; it's still the wrong continent, but at least the water parameters fit.

[Richard B]

whilst theoretically these 2 would co-habit without problems in terms of their respective interaction, as Sid points out their water requirements differ vastly making it much less of a good idea in practice. Luci's are very intolerant of nitrate build up & prefer a significant rock layout for cover in a tank.

Betta prefer heavy planting, & as Sid continues, the water parameters are too different.

[unblinded]

Actually, the majority of bettas sold today are man-made creations that have never seen the PH that their ancestors are accustomed to. So to stick to a rigid set of rules for their wild brethren is kind of silly.

[sidguppy]

removed my text because I was way out of line here.

but I don't like to be called "silly" because I disagree with bad fishkeeping.

[unblinded]

Sid, it's just an opinion. That's all. I'm entitled to disagree with you. Nothing personal. I keep petricolas with all kinds of different community fish and they've done fine for several years now. I am entitled to an opinion as are you. I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about fishkeeping. I've only been keeping fish for about 30 years off and on. What works for one person might not work for another. I personally keep 2 Syno Granulosa together and they are fine--people on this site didn't recommend it. I tried it, it works for me. I'm not trying to call you out or argue, just giving an opinion.

[Jools]

Actually, the majority of bettas sold today are man-made creations that have never seen the PH that their ancestors are accustomed to. So to stick to a rigid set of rules for their wild brethren is kind of silly.

Really? Two questions then, what pH are they farmed at and why is it silly to keep captive bred fish in similar circumstances to that in which the wild species is found?

Jools

[unblinded]

I don't know what PH they have been farmed at. I would imagine depending on what farm you go to, they are raised in various conditions. What I can tell you is this. My best fish friend has rasied Syno Lucipinnis in the hundreds (800 or so at one time) side by side with anything from guppys/mollies/platys to various plecos to mbunas to South & Central American cichlids. Basically every tank he has was raising Lucipinnis when I first met him-over 4000 gallons. He also raises/breeds L-260s in the same water & South & Central American cichlids in the same water and mbunas all in the same water. And the kicker is this--He doesn't know what his PH is, he never checks it. There is no hard & fast rule, only opinion. It's silly because the fish that most newbies are buying, they are buying at a big box store & it has probably never had the opportunity to flap it's fins in the PH/conditions that it's wild counterparts were accustomed to.

[sidguppy]

right

so the whole concept of trying to keep a fish as well as possible and close to it's natural parameters is just "an opinion" and "silly" to boot.

is the fish hobby a case of "can I get away with it and if yes, it's recommended for all"?

There is no hard & fast rule, only opinion.

wrong.

the hard & fast rule here is that one keeps his or her fish as optimal as possible.

why:
because of the ethical aspect.
we deal with living creatures, not things.
the least we can do is making them as comfortable as possible.


you quote 1 single fish keeper who got away with mixing fish from different water,
and hence this is the way to do things and everyone who disagrees got the wrong opinion.....

taking a leaf out of your book,
I'd say his method of fish keeping is an opinion and quite silly,
cause with a bit of effort one can get South American catfish for South American cichlid tanks easily
and even Malawian catfish for Malawian cichlid tanks are available.

in 1 topic you want everyone to toe the line because you won't accept it otherwise without rock-hard scientific proof,
now you cite a single hobbyist unknown to any of us;
now his method of keeping a lot of fish from different water parameters is advisable to all.






just a second, thought I heard something crash and shatter on the floor.....
it might just be a large bit of credibility that went bust.

[unblinded]

Sid,

There are several people on this forum that know the friend I am referring to personally and even people who have published books on Lakes Malawi & Tanganyika know him well. I won't name any names or try to bring anyone else into the conversation. Let's just agree to disagree on this. I'd like to think you and I would be friends if we lived down the street from one another because we both have an interest in catfishes. It's nice to have a place to converse with people of a common interest because heaven knows my wife gets tired of hearing about the latest Synodontis that has tickled my fancy.

[Jools]

I don't know what PH they have been farmed at. I would imagine depending on what farm you go to, they are raised in various conditions.

It's a guess then.

What I can tell you is this. My best fish friend has rasied Syno Lucipinnis in the hundreds (800 or so at one time) side by side with anything from guppys/mollies/platys to various plecos to mbunas to South & Central American cichlids. Basically every tank he has was raising Lucipinnis when I first met him-over 4000 gallons. He also raises/breeds L-260s in the same water & South & Central American cichlids in the same water and mbunas all in the same water. And the kicker is this--He doesn't know what his PH is, he never checks it.

This isn't your own experience then? All the fish species listed above are relatively easy to breed and are known to breed in a wide range of pH. I note he's not breeding Bettas...

And the kicker is this--He doesn't know what his PH is, he never checks it.

I don't really know what a kicker is, bear in mind this is an international site, but I fail to see how not knowing what pH is in your tanks is a good thing. Often when I talk to successful competent breeders like your friend I find that they've evolved towards the fish that work for them, their water, their routine, feeding and so on. The success they enjoy is brilliant, but, like my own fishroom, tends to gravitate towards fishes that suit the water. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be breeding everything...

By the same logic (don't know what the pH is but the fish are breeding), we could all be keeping goldfish with S. lucipinnis. But is that good fishkeeping? I think you will find the majority of "opinion" on this site is that it is not.

It's silly because the fish that most newbies are buying, they are buying at a big box store & it has probably never had the opportunity to flap it's fins in the PH/conditions that it's wild counterparts were accustomed to.

And so we should tell them to ignore the optimum requirements for that species because they bought the fish at that type of store? Newbies can just be told anything because they're buying farm raised fish? Rather condescending to assume igol66 is a newbie and offer advice as such?

I'd rather get back to offering advice to igol66. It is a fact that we're looking at a softwater dense vegetation Asian species being kept with an African hardwater lacustrine species. It is a fact that I have kept S. lucipinnis in low (for them) pH of about 7 and they were OK, but only for rearing. Over all, in my opinion, I wouldn't risk the long fins of a Betta with a hungry shoal of synos unless it's quite a tall tank.

Jools

[unblinded]

Once again, it's OK if we disagree on this matter.

[Jools]

Once again, it's OK if we disagree on this matter.

Sure, absolutely, but I'm trying to offer advice to igol66 in such a way as they can see my logic rather than it just seem like I disagree for the sake of it.

Jools

[MatsP]

In the vein of offering useful advice, there are several other Synos that would be closer to ideal for keeping with a Betta (assuming the water is right for a Betta, that is). Nearly all Synos that are NOT from the Rift Lakes will like similar conditions, and the

Synodontis nigriventris

will like dense vegetation and soft/acidic water.

--
Mats

[Jools]

In the vein of offering useful advice, there are several other Synos that would be closer to ideal for keeping with a Betta (assuming the water is right for a Betta, that is).

Err, but the OP already has six S. lucipinnis? So I am not sure they are looking to swap them out.

Jools

[MatsP]

Err, but the OP already has six S. lucipinnis? So I am not sure they are looking to swap them out.

Jools

Ah, good point - too many posts in between, I thought it was the other way around. In another tank, you can keep bettas with S. nigriventris.... ;)

Of course, Essex is generally hard water, which isn't really ideal for Betta species.

--
Mats