A little genetic help

[iziko]

My wild Ancistrus sp. "Pucallpa" just spwam tody in their 40L aquarium.

I also have the regular Ancistrus SP. in other aquarium, and in the main tank I've young:

2 Longfins Ancistrus
1 Albino Longfins Ancistrus
1 L144
1 Longfins L144.
2 wild Ancistrus SP. (maybe "Ucayali").

I want to do a little mixing this year with the F1 "Pucallpa" and maybe do a new variation.

Wich type of my Ancistrus I should tryto breed and take is fry to mix with the F1 "Pucallpa" fry?

also, to get see a new pattern I need:

F1 Pucallpa X other Ansictrus = Fx1

Than:

FX1 X Fx1 = 25% new pattern.

Am I right?

Thank you!

[Rabbit]

To make it clear i do not condone what your doing "but" to answer your question.
In the first generation of the "X" you will receive only the dominant variation in which half young will be carriers of the recessive gene, unless in the rare instance you have two dominant genes fight in the main "X". You will need then to cross back to the parent with the desired gene or cross two young in which you will receive half (on average) of the desired gene and half the original dominant. Continue the path and eventually they will breed true.

[MatsP]

I want to do a little mixing this year with the F1 "Pucallpa" and maybe do a new variation.

Wich type of my Ancistrus I should tryto breed and take is fry to mix with the F1 "Pucallpa" fry?

How about keeping the wild form PURE, and not try to play god?

Creating hybrids ON PURPOSE is definitely not recommended.

--
Mats

[Bijn]

One day the import will fall back to a very low level or even completely stop. What do you prefer then: a bunch of hybrids or different pure species in captivity.

[Richard B]

Oh dear........

[Bas Pels]

Oh dear........

I think, Richard, you are referring to discussions about whether to keep hybrids or not - which quite often end up in bad feelings

Personally, I think the above anwers suffice, therefore I will not add more of the same. But I do hope others, who might consider posting similar opinions, would consider whether these opinions are really needed.

[Suckermouth]

F1 Pucallpa X other Ansictrus = Fx1

Than:

FX1 X Fx1 = 25% new pattern.

This is the case for recessive traits.

[iziko]

I belive in "not making hybrids".

but, I don't have what to to with a bunch of fry F1 pure ancistrus, uniqe as they are.

also, sometimes hybrids are beutiful then the the pure.

one of my goal to get wild ansictrus was to get F1 genartion with "cleen sheet" and not some fry that I don't know what mixed with them.

An in the last, There is no value here for this species fry.
Pepole don't reconize the quilty of f1 fry from wild perents.

[MatsP]

Well, if there is no value in the Pucullpa fry, then I don't see what the value is of breeding these into your existing captive bred species. Breed your "valuable" albinos, longfins,

Ancistrus sp(4)

(I presume that's what you mean by L144,as the true

Ancistrus sp(L144)

are not available).

But don't create hybrids on purpose. There are far too many hybrids already. No need to make it worse.

--
Mats

[MatsP]

By the way, there is absolutely no reason to be sure that these will hybridize at all - they are probably different species, and may well be genetically incompatible. But don't "try to see if it works" just to prove this statement wrong!

--
Mats

[Shane]

I would be curious to see the actual fish in question and determine if they are

Ancistrus sp`pucallpa`

.

I have noted at the local (DC area) fish club auctions that many

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

are being sold as

Ancistrus sp`pucallpa`

. In fact all sales of fish identified A. sp Pucallpa I have looked into have actually been

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

.

Telling similar looking Ancistrus spp apart (esp without solid provenience data) is very, very hard. It is not difficult to understand that an aquarist looking to identify theirs might conclude that their fish looks closer to the rare/more expensive than the common/cheaper fish. How many times have we seen this with

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

passed off as L144?

-Shane

[MatsP]

Shane, that's a very good point. If the fish is the "common bristlenose in brown colour", then obviously it's not creating a hybrid.

--
Mats

[iziko]

Hi shane,

As you request this the male:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YCt7_Jq ... r_embedded


The breeding:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MIKEBAZAZ#p ... _pYlnN6M8k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNpuuMOcnDs

Fry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgfTiBvtv_k

Video by the 1st owner.

Thank you

[MatsP]

I'd say those are

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

, aka "Common bristlenose". What evidence is there that they came from Peru as wild-caught fish?

--
Mats

[Shane]

Those are really nice videos, but I agree with Mats that they are

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

.

-Shane