the TRUE Lophiobagrus cyclurus from Tanganyika

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 12 Oct 2003, 21:29

here are two pix from my semi-juvenile L cyclurus

this one is a male

two juvies, the right one is the same as above.

You can see very clearly the flatter head, and the crystalclear edges on the fins.

Compare those two with the brevispinis!

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 12 Oct 2003, 22:58

Hi!

They have some at my lfs but i dont have money/space or money and space for a new tank...

They sell the full grown fish for 10.- money....

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 13 Oct 2003, 10:09

A fully grown Lophiobagrus for 10â?¬ is a steal!

I had some a while ago, and paid about 17,50â?¬ a fish, then.
The juvies I bought in Germany were about 8â?¬ or so.

They need room; cyclurus has a very different character and is decidely less peaceful compared to brevispinis.

I've never seen any aggression with brevispinis; they even share caves when not breeding. In the LFS where mine come from, they still have plenty. Although thin (there are too many of them, so foodcompetition is hard), most look pretty whole.

cyclurus adults are definitely capable of maiming or killing each other despite hiding places; the males can be fiercely territorial.
It's my plan to have a pair formed, and keep the other two in a different tank as "back up".

Or maybe they spread the agression when kept in a small group. Before this, I always had 1 pair. We'll find out.

namansi · Post by **namansi** » 22 Oct 2003, 02:58

I have just brought a few of these cuties home from the lake. Can anyone tell me if they're hard to breed or any particulars of interest. Thanks

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 22 Oct 2003, 17:39

They have been bred in captivity, on occasion.
Greggo -who is a very experienced Tanganyika Synodontis keeper- has a pair that breeds often.

Mine are still too young.
There IS a drawback however; L cyclurus exhibits HUGE intraspecies agression and can be very territorial; up to mutilations and killings even.
Other catfishes usually ae left alone, but L brevispinis and Phyllonemus can get the boot too, although it's nothing compared to the agression to other cyclurus.

a well-setup tank with many caves, and a group should spread that agression. I first made the mistake of keeping only 1 pair in a tank (first a 100 liter breeding setup, then a 500 liter showtank) and the female was often badly mauled.
Now I have 4 sub-juveniles/adolescents, and although the occasional nip or chase occurs, their numbers -4- do work much better than just two.

Once a pair forms, maybe removal of the rest is in order? Although brooding Lophio's stick very close to their cave, and don't venture out much.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » 22 Oct 2003, 23:12

How do you tell the difference between cyclurus and brevispinis? I've looked at pics of both and I can't tell the difference. Which is more common in the trade, I've only seen cyclurus offered, or don't the sellers know either.

Post by **Silurus** » 22 Oct 2003, 23:16

Read this, it may help.

namansi · Post by **namansi** » 24 Oct 2003, 03:51

Thanks for the info I think I'll be removing the phyllonemus from this tank. These are beautiful cats. they seem to be settling in well.

Thanks again T

Post by **Dinyar** » 24 Oct 2003, 06:03

We have had 4 Lophiobagrus cyclurus and 4 Phyllonemus typus in the same tank for more than a year and the two groups completely ignore one another. One male L. cyclurus asserts his dominance over the other, but that's the only aggression we see.

Dinyar

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 24 Oct 2003, 14:53

Then one of us either got lucky, or Murphy's onto him!

I was truly baffled by the nastiness of my adult Lophio's, I tell you. Definitely didn't expect this behaviour at all.
the juvies I recently got are territorial, but indeed not so vary bad mofo's as the first two.
those were very big adults, mind; the male was a full 4" and weight about as much as a 6" Synodontis eupterus or something; a very robust build fish. the adult female was about 8 cm.

So I hope I'm wrong on this particular cat, and Dinyar's got it right; and mine were two unfortunate berserkers.

Maybe they get truly bad sometimes when they grow old?? lophio cyclurus grow fairly steady (although brevispinis are very slow growers! like Syno petricola youngsters), but I think they might slow down once they pass the 2 1/2" mark. How big are yours, Dinyar?

My first two were wildcaught adults that came from a French breeder, they could very well have been years and years in captivity. 5 years? a decade?? I've got no idea.

but individual fish turning truly nasty once they age, is a phenomena I've seen for myself, occasionally.

Post by **Dinyar** » 25 Oct 2003, 01:14

SG_Eurystomus wrote:How big are yours, Dinyar?

The biggest is about 7-8 cm TL. Very fat and sleek alpha male. The subordinate male is thin, scrawny and scratched up, but seems to have found his niche nevertheless.

Dinyar

namansi · Post by **namansi** » 26 Oct 2003, 17:19

Well I have seperated them. I will take no chances yet. Question on the P. Typus when I was catching them there would be the standard form with the leaf like barbels and others without the leaf. my thought on this was likely the Female, however I haven't seem any info to confirm this. Could this be the other Phyllonemus Filinemus.
If I had a Digital camera I would show you. I may have got a pic on a slide but I have to wait for them to finish processing.
Do the Typus eat anyhthing other than swimming fish?

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 26 Oct 2003, 18:32

the leafless Phyllo's are DEFINITELY filinemus! (or the third species, but AFAIK this species might well be synonymous with the filinemus).
female typus are smaller than males, have a less wide head when viewed from above, and a rounder belly, as well as a lighter color.
There should be a visible papil, but it could also only be visible when they're in a spawning mood (as in Lophio's); but both species have the leafy whiskers.

Phyllonemus don't eat fish! although they're likely to scoop up tiny fry resting on the bottom. They like small crustaceans, mosquitolarvae, flakefood, tabs (they take those in their mouth and carry them off to their cave!) and carrion (parts from dead fish).

but to avoid getting messy, just feed them things like bloodworms, cyclops, mysis, flake and pellets etc. better not experiment with cut-up guppy cadavers!

namansi · Post by **namansi** » 27 Oct 2003, 18:16

Well thanks for the info again. I think I will start building a big 1000 gal tank, I might need it.

Post by **Dinyar** » 27 Oct 2003, 20:18

SG_Eurystomus wrote:Phyllonemus don't eat fish! although they're likely to scoop up tiny fry resting on the bottom. They like small crustaceans, mosquitolarvae, flakefood, tabs (they take those in their mouth and carry them off to their cave!) and carrion (parts from dead fish).

but to avoid getting messy, just feed them things like bloodworms, cyclops, mysis, flake and pellets etc. better not experiment with cut-up guppy cadavers!

I feed ALL the fish in my Tang tank nothing but 100% pure spirulina at least twice a week. (Meat-based flakes 3-4 times a week, frozen mysis, plankton or worms about once a week, cucumbers, duckweed, etc. with the other feedings, once a week no food.) I find that they do better with some "leafy greens" in their diet.

Dinyar

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 27 Oct 2003, 22:09

I feed ALL the fish in my Tang tank nothing but 100% pure spirulina at least twice a week.

Excuse my ignorance. When you say spirulina, I think of a very fine green powder. Is this what you mean Dinyar ?

Post by **Silurus** » 27 Oct 2003, 22:26

There are spirulina flakes, and spirulina is the main ingredient in algae wafers.

Post by **Silurus** » 27 Oct 2003, 23:26

or the third species, but AFAIK this species might well be synonymous with the filinemus

What makes you say that? Phyllonemus brichardi looks very different from P. filinemus to me.

Post by **Dinyar** » 28 Oct 2003, 02:06

plesner wrote:Excuse my ignorance. When you say spirulina, I think of a very fine green powder. Is this what you mean Dinyar ?

You are right, spirulina is sometimes available as a fine green powder. As Silurus pointed out, sometimes it is processed into flakes. Some "spirulina" flakes have a low spirulina content, but it is also possible to get pure spirulina flakes.

Dinyar

Pectorale · Post by **Pectorale** » 28 Oct 2003, 10:43

Spirulina is used in a variety of foods, both 'pure' and mixed with other( often) more protein containing foodsources.It comes in powder, tablets, discs and flakes. I really would like to know how it is being processed though. Wardley Spirulina discs, for example, contains soy protein concentrate and soybean oil (stabilized with TBHQ whatever that may be ) and I have to assume that since it is an American brand, that soy has been genetically modified.What effects this has on fish is unknown, at least to me.Time will tell, I guess.

namansi · Post by **namansi** » 28 Oct 2003, 15:22

Sounds to me that they are a scavenger(not to specailized) and a good variety will do them good. When I caught them they we're in 20' of water over sand bottom there was next to no vegitation near by. Observation to me is that they slowly prowl the sand for anything that is edible, from Small fry to insect larve to shrimp. My info suggests that the leaf like barbels help channel the food to their mouths. The fact that in the aquarium nothing is as it is in the wild might be the differences in opion. By the way I never saw P. Typus or the other Phyllonemus sp. during any of my day dives. During the night dives they were both plentiful.

Oreo T

the TRUE Lophiobagrus cyclurus from Tanganyika

the TRUE Lophiobagrus cyclurus from Tanganyika

Wild cyclurus in my home

many thanks