My L102 Snowball not eating

[sodapopdima]

I purchased him (1" maybe 1 1/4" long) on 10/13/2011 for my 20Long tank and I have a huge caved piece of driftwood that he immediately took a liking to. All my surrounding fish are very small peacful community fish (some neon tetra's, fancy tail guppy's, zebra daneio, and two killi's). He even at such a small size is the largest tank fish in there.

All water is from a R/O DI system and all levels of ph, ammonia, nitrates, etc... are all fine.

I am concerned because he is ignoring the Algae wafers and is just sucking on the driftwood, not really eating at all. I even watched at night with the lunar lights on. The driftwood was added a few days ago so it doesn't have any algae on it yet.

Today I got some shrimp sinking pellets and carnivore meat pellets in hopes that it will entice his appetite more. If that doesn't work what else can I try, any suggestions?

I even threw the food right by the cave entrance of the driftwood in case he is timid still to come out but he ignored the algae wafers as they were less than an inch from his face.

Am I over-reacting or should I actually be worried?

[MatsP]

L102 is

Hypancistrus inspector

(although they are often confused with

Hypancistrus contradens

and

Hypancistrus sp(L201)

- the difference is the black edge to the dorsal and caudal fins).

These are meat-eaters, so food like Tetra Prima or shrimp pellets are a better choice than algae-wafers. And they are very shy, so feeding at night is probably the best choice.

--
Mats

[sodapopdima]

Thanks for the reply Mats, I will give it a go, I already purchased the meat/shrimp based pellets today and will try tonight, and I will try evening time when lights are out.

I am now unsure if it is L102 or l201 but I am leaning towards L201 as I do not think I saw a black colored tip anywhere. Also, I do not remember if he was darker or lighter to distinguish between the two species.

I am glad that the max size is 4.7" as I do not want a larger pleco than that for a 20g.

I will reply here, will try the shrimp pellets tonight, thanks so much for the advice.

And now I will need a real algae eater... hehehe

[Linus_Cello]

One other thought. Try rubbing cut garlic or using garlic extract on the pellet food. Supposedly the garlic acts as an appetite stimulant; not sure if the plecos smell the garlic, but it (NLS with garlic) worked for getting my L114s to eat.

Some food has garlic, like my aforementioned NLS (New Life Spectrum) Thera A+:www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/205542/product.web

[Unungy]

One other thought. Try rubbing cut garlic or using garlic extract on the pellet food. Supposedly the garlic acts as an appetite stimulant; not sure if the plecos smell the garlic, but it (NLS with garlic) worked for getting my L114s to eat.

Some food has garlic, like my aforementioned NLS (New Life Spectrum) Thera A+:www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/205542/product.web

He knows his stuff yeah. New Life Spectrum Thera-A (Garlic) Anti-Parasitic will keep your fish nice and healthy. Even in well established tanks can be a problem.

[sodapopdima]

Thanks for all the advice everyone,

I just got home and threw in a few shrimp pellets by the cave entrance (despite it being bright daytime and tank lights at full blast), and I guess the little guy was hungry, I actually saw some activity and watched for a while, and although it was a bit tough to see inside the caved driftwood, I am quite sure he started eating. It wasn't right away, it was after a few minutes, but he took to the shrimp pellets.

Now I am wondering, will he get sick of the same food daily, other than the mentioned garlic NLS which I will try (will purchase tonight), and the sinking meat pellets and shrimp pellets, what else can I throw into the mix? Will vegetables work... (zucchini, cucumber, other??)?

It was really hard but I caught some pix of him, he came out and all I had was my phone with a non professional camera, but maybe it will help in someone in deducing which specific species this is, as it was pointed out earlier it may be L102, L201, and another sort of which all are easily confused with each other:

ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/Pleco01.jpg
ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/Pleco02.jpg
ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/Pleco03.jpg

Thanks so Much all!!!

[MatsP]

Even at young age, like this three month old juvenile, L102 (H. inspector) has black edges to the fins.



So it's one of the other two, probably

L201

, but if it's less than two inches, it's very hard to say.

--
Mats

[drpleco]

That almost looks like LDA33...very hard to tell, but the mouth looks a little big for a hypan.

[sodapopdima]

Yes, he is young, I would eyeball him at about an inch and a half, not sure how many weeks or months that would relatively be, but I agree, and i see no darkened fins, guess I will try when he is bigger and post a new pic in the identify my pleco area

[sodapopdima]

That almost looks like LDA33...very hard to tell, but the mouth looks a little big for a hypan.

Well, LDA33 is listed as liking algae wafers, this one doesn't, and yes wow looks a lot like it but I hope you are wrong, the size difference is of worry for my small 20g, I wanted a Pleco that didn't get larger than 6" and LDA33 is listed as up to nearly 10" - L201 would be preferred at this point

[MatsP]

A good photo of the mouth would be good to confirm the ID.

Going by what food the fish actually eats (a few days after being moved) is not a good ID... Fish often eats "tasty" food more than "good" food. ;)

--
Mats

[sodapopdima]

MatsP

I got the best I could, here is a picture of the mouth, he is always hiding so very hard to catch him.

ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/Pleco04.jpg
ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/Pleco05.jpg

[MatsP]

I don't see anything sayinng it's NOT

L142

- however, it would be better to have a "from below" mouth shot - which probably requires either catching or at least forcing the fish to sit against the glass.

--
Mats

[redfan]

Hi - This guy looks very similar to my LDA33 (included a pic but bear in mind he does appear a little lighter as he's in full lighting). Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

One way you could help find out is to maybe try a small piece of (par boiled and cooled down etc) zucchini. LDA33's love it. Also, the pic of mine was taken on first day, since then and since my tank has been covered with driftwood I never see him during lights on, only after dark. However with the zuchinni, I put it near his designated wood and he will come out to eat whenever it goes in (he just likes the safety of being able to retreat if required lol).

From the date you got the plec, that's less than a week. It can take plecs up to 2 weeks to start eating anything, especially wafers.

Hope it all gets cleared up for you and the plec is eating well soon

[racoll]

sodapopdima, you haven't mentioned the temperature of the tank. These "fancy" plecos will often go on hunger strike when kept in water too cold. It does look suspiciously like

L142

(=

LDA033

) to me, and these in particular need really warm water.

I would resist trying every food under the sun. Once these are settled down they eat anything, but at this stage overfeeding with lots of new foods will certainly cause poor water quality, as all the little bits fall down into the cracks in the gravel, and rot.

[Matt30]

Hello mate

You have got yourself a L142/LDA033 going buy the size of the spots also confirmes this sorry, like you say not what you wanted to here.

Good luck

[redfan]

sodapopdima, you haven't mentioned the temperature of the tank. These "fancy" plecos will often go on hunger strike when kept in water too cold. It does look suspiciously like

L142

(=

LDA033

) to me, and these in particular need really warm water.

What do you mean by really warm water?

Mine is in with the Jaguars with an avg temp of around 26 -27C he seems more than fine, eats really well and (at night) pretty active (the Jaguars are extremely active with this temp too).

Just curious as have read about the tank temp previously.
Thanks

[MatsP]

Somewhere between 28 and 30'C (82-86'F) would be good when first introduced - that makes them "hungry" quicker, thanks to higher metabolic rate.

--
Mats

[redfan]

Thanks Mats

[Unungy]

L142/LDA033 is correct.

[sodapopdima]

Hi all, sorry for the long wait in an update but work has been so busy. Some good news, after about 3 or 4 days I saw more eating, even algae wafers now, and the shyness is slowly going away, but just as someone else wrote on top, th elil guy likes to have the ability to retreat and loves to hide. He (and I say he although maybe it's a she ) also likes to switch hiding spots between the huge caved driftwood and the tiki head made of plastic or whatever material it is they use. The tank is well oxygenated and I have a dual R/O system so my tank always gets DI RO (De-ionized reverse osmosis) water at 30% level change once a week. Now that I switched to LED lighting my heat is no longer in the high range, its around 78 when it used to be 82/84 with regular lighting. Despite this, so far looking good, I just wish I had the nerve to catch him to get a better pic of him and his mouth but since he finally settled in I don't want to stress him again, maybe one day he will be out on his own, but as of yet, he has NEVER come out to suck onto or stay on the glass.

Although I am starting to agree this definitely isn't a snowball but I just don't know which one he is, and I looked at my old receipt, I thought I had a 20 gallon but as it turns out I have a 14gallon odd sized take I got which was a custom build, this really sucks, because I feel now especially he will be limited in space and growth... no more fish for this tank. A snowball would defintiely had been more ideal due to the smaller maxx size potential, now I am a bit worried.

I am also wondering if I overpaid as I specifically ordered a snowball pleco, what's the going avg price of these? I got him from a local mom and pop store.

[racoll]

Now that I switched to LED lighting my heat is no longer in the high range, its around 78 when it used to be 82/84 with regular lighting.

78F is a bit cold for these fish. 82-84 would be better.

Although I am starting to agree this definitely isn't a snowball but I just don't know which one he is,

I think most people are sure its a

Baryancistrus sp(l142)

, but when you can get more photos, we can confirm this.

I would not get too hung up on the common names. All black plecos with white spots are sold as "snowball plecos", and that's quite a few different species, that often have very different care requirements.

I am also wondering if I overpaid as I specifically ordered a snowball pleco

Baryancistrus

usually sell for a bit more than

Hypancistrus

, so no, you probably did not pay any more.

I thought I had a 20 gallon but as it turns out I have a 14gallon odd sized ... feel now especially he will be limited in space and growth

Yes, absolutely. They grow slow but will get to at least 10" over time, so you will either have to upgrade to a significantly larger tank, or rehome the fish at some point.

[MatsP]

As to price: It's hard to say which is sold for more. L201 on the list from Pier just posted is £16 - no size given, and L142 is listed at £32. True

Hypancistrus inspector

(L102) is £40.

Since all of these and several others has been known to be called "Snowball pleco", and we don't know what pricing your LFS has - but in general, shops set the price based on the price they buy the fish for (multiplied by something so that they make some profit [and covering cost of running the shop, shipping costs for the fish, etc, etc], of course).

--
Mats

[sodapopdima]

Best I could do, sorry they aren't very clear, I hope this helps

ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/mouth01.jpg
ftp://dnulman.dyndns.org/mouth02.jpg

[racoll]

That's a

Baryancistrus

alright!

[sodapopdima]

That's a

Baryancistrus

alright!

huh, he has no gold???

[racoll]

huh, he has no gold???

I meant the mouth being indicative of the genus as a whole. The species is

L142

aka

LDA033

.

[sodapopdima]

oh ok, understood

How the heck can you tell all that just from seeing the mouth

Also, what is the difference btw L142 and LDA33, I actually never understood the deviation naming scheme of going L to LDA

As an update, he has gotten less shy now, comes out a bit more during daytime, but he is still a light eater, although he must be getting enough nutrition as he is still alive and looking lively

[MatsP]

LDA-numbers are "described" by the Germany hobby magazine "Das Aquarium", where L-numbers are from another German hobby magazine called "Der Aquarium and Terrarium Zeitung" [or something close to that]. Sometimes the same species is given both an L-number and a LDA-number. In this case LDA033 is the same as L142.

L102 mouth:

Note that the mouth is small (less half the width of the head), and one narrow "row" of teeth across the upper part of the mouth, with two rows along the lower part of the mouth.

Now compare with this, from Baryncistrus xanthellus (gold nugget):

Mouth is much wider, about 2/3 of the full head witdth. The teeth are in two broad "plates" both upper and lower part of mouth, with many teeth in each plate.

The shape of the overall mouth and the position/shape of teeth and teethplates is one of the things that scientists look at to define new species.

--
Mats

[krazyGeoff]

Nice post Mats

sodapopdima: here is a recent post on feeding of a barry: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=34178
A similar experience to yours, especially the "slow to eat" phase. The dietry advice is all good for your L142.

Cheers