live plants and sand

BIGblue · Post by **BIGblue** » 20 Oct 2003, 20:40

My tank is finally cycled, so I went to the LFS to get some live plants. The guy at the LFS told me I shouldn't have live plants with sand. Is this true? I'm almost positive i've seen tanks with live plants and sand before. If I took out about half of the sand and added gravel will this help keep the plants anchored?

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 20 Oct 2003, 21:05

IMO in is easier to grow certain types of plants better in sand which plants did you have in mind? There is a lot more to doing well with plants than just the substrate.
The only problems with sand are if it compacts then the plant roots rot and die.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 20 Oct 2003, 21:25

Hi!

If you take plants that grown on sand therell be no problem. for example Valisneria, Cryptocoryne. I also have Nymphea, Bacopa and Amazon swordplants growing on sand.
I wouldnt mix sand with gravel like this. With certainty the gravel will sit up on the sand in no time...its like shaking your muesli in the box. Small things fall to the bottom and big pieces stay on top.
In another point i wouldve added live plants while cycling the tank...they help reduce NOx and also change CO2 and O2 production, so the whole systems runs under completely different chemical circumstances. Did your dealer tell you to do it without plants? If so added with the plant advice i would change the dealer...or stop listening to his advices.

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 20 Oct 2003, 21:33

Decent link:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/
have a look at the contest!

Post by **Dinyar** » 20 Oct 2003, 22:13

It's certainly possible to grow plants in sand. The sand can't be too fine, though. To get good plant growth, you need a reasonably thick substrate, 3 cm at least, and with fine sand, you run the risk of it compacting and going anaerobic (ie, organic stuff rotting inside).

As Caolila says, choosing sand-friendly plants helps as well.

It's probably easier to grow plants in small-grained gravel, so if you don't have lots of experience with plants, that my be the best place to start.

Dinyar

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 20 Oct 2003, 22:21

Hi!

I have Valisneria gigantea in my tanks along with a small curled one i forgot the name...and the small one doesnt grow proper in gravel. Maybe because it cant push through with the new plants. In sand both have spread very nicely and i have new plants regularly.

BIGblue · Post by **BIGblue** » 20 Oct 2003, 23:11

I should have added that I'm completely new to sand and live plants. The grain of the sand is very fine. Should I take out the sand and get thicker grain sand? I was thought that if you move the sand around about once a week you could you could avoid the anaerobic gasses.

I planned on getting mostly grassy type plants, and maybe just 1 or 2 tall plants.

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 20 Oct 2003, 23:30

Hi!

Imo the less you move around in the tank the less stress for your fishes.
A secure way you could choose would be "planting" Anubias and/or Javafern/moss on deco and not directly in the sand.
For low growing bushy plants you could choose Cryptos which are very nice, a little slow growing. But even my brunos dont eat them so they are pleco safe.

Post by **Rusty** » 20 Oct 2003, 23:34

You don't really want to move the substrate around once the plants have established their roots in it. How fine is fine in your case? And are the edges of the sand round or sharp?

Rusty

BIGblue · Post by **BIGblue** » 21 Oct 2003, 02:23

I used play sand. It seems a lot finer than any other aquatic sand I've found.

Post by **Dinyar** » 21 Oct 2003, 06:05

I wouldn't go that route. Growing healthy plants is in some ways harder than keeping healthy fish, so it may not be a good idea to start out with a handicap. -- Dinyar

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 21 Oct 2003, 13:48

I'm keeping sand in all tanks since, what? 1978 or so??

It's GRAVEL that made the plants sick IME; too much dirt in the 'pockets' between the gravelparts; swampgas, tons of bacteria, loads of accumulated dirt; the whole package.

I do NOT use playsand however; indeed too finely structured (it should be safe for kiddy-hands, remember?) and it often gets a 'crust' and then turns black under that crust. From there it's downhill.....

I use riversand, that's slightly coarser, and it often contains a lot of gravel. I sieve out the gravel, but not with a fine sieve; just one you use to dry-drip the salad, one of those plastic or steelmesh things.

for demanding plants I sometimes put in pieces of unbacked clay on the bottom, deeply buried. In a riverine tank, wild rabbit dung is also great, collect them on dry grassy plains, NOT the urine-soaked ones from the pet rabbit! (not kidding!)

Pleny plants grow in sand, but I admit, I only keep sturdy plants and those in numbers!(finely leafed tender rooted plants shouldn't be in any catfishtank anyway). Good light is MUCH more important than sand; once the light is fine, plants grow.
If you have only one fluorescence bulb or maybe two on a big tank, forget about it; plants need LOTS of light. quality is also important.
The bulbs you use in the livingroom or office are completely wortless....

metallhd · Post by **metallhd** » 22 Oct 2003, 03:02

Here's a pitch for another forum I frequent, right up your street . . . I would add to the conversation that the choice of sand is critical, the edges must be smooth so your cats can avoid damage to their barbels.

Sand is a perfectly good substrate for all kinds of plants, but a lot of people use laterite, fluorite, kitty litter and heaven knows what kinds of other stuff. Check out this site - everyone's friendly and there's a pile of info

http://www.plantedtank.net

roby · Post by **roby** » 23 Oct 2003, 23:46

i have sand in a heavily planted tank and they are doing great. when i uprooted one to move it i found it's roots muche healthier than i have in gravel. the roots were much longer and covered in tiny hairs.
this is a pic of the tank about two and a half weeks ago a couple of weeks after setting it up. since then the plants have filled out alot.

it's very very fine sand. the corys love it and dive head first into it.

BIGblue · Post by **BIGblue** » 02 Nov 2003, 23:37

I decided to keep the set up I have and get some live plants. I was getting too many conflicting arguements, so I thought I would just experiment with what I have. My question now is about the pots.

I got a Cryptocoryne Ciliata and a Echinodorus Osiris (Melon Sword). The lady at the LFS told me I should keep them in the plastic pots that they came in. Since the tank is only a 10 gallon there isn't too much sand. The pots stick out through the sand. Not that this looks bad, but I think it would look a lot better without the pots showing. Is it safe to take the plants out of the pots, or will this hurt the roots?

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 02 Nov 2003, 23:54

Is it safe to take the plants out of the pots, or will this hurt the roots?

I would take them out of their pots - but I'd do it carefully.