Aquarium lighting

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 21 Jul 2011, 16:11

I'm looking to get a new fixture for a 125 gal planted tank with java fern, anubias and swords. Any suggestions where I can get a well priced fixture? I noticed some of the high end fixtures are around $300-$400...

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Jul 2011, 16:23

It's the Swords that is going to require the most of the light, but not massive amounts, so I'd say two or three T8 tubes (or two T5) of similar length to the tank would be fine. A 125g is 6ft long, so 5ft or 6ft tubes would be fine.

I use some wood and just mount regular fluorescent tube to it... Something like this:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/4ft-fluorescent ... vt/162280/
(Obviously, this is a UK company, you'll have to figure out what's available at your local DIY stores...)

--
Mats

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 21 Jul 2011, 16:41

So you just DIY and build your own? I'm an office kind of guy, so I'd have to buy one already made

Thriftyfisher · Post by **Thriftyfisher** » 21 Jul 2011, 17:37

I make my own lights as well, actually just put them on 2x4's but use a little different fixture. I by my lighting from a company called AH Supply http://www.ahsupply.com They are not hard at all to put together, really I am not much of a DIY guy especially when it comes to electrical things but these are pretty easy

They seem to do alright for me. My largest tanks are 90 gallons and I only use 2 55watt lights on each tank. I can grow most plants including crypts and swords. I usually just keep the bulb running until the light burns out and then replace the bulb. I have been using these lights for 10 years without many problems.

I think the best thing about their lights is the reflector which really puts a lot of light into the tank. I would not recommend a 3-6-10 bulb for fresh water unless you want a lot of algae.

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 21 Jul 2011, 17:48

Thriftyfisher wrote:I make my own lights as well, actually just put them on 2x4's but use a little different fixture. I by my lighting from a company called AH Supply http://www.ahsupply.com They are not hard at all to put together, really I am not much of a DIY guy especially when it comes to electrical things but these are pretty easy

They seem to do alright for me. My largest tanks are 90 gallons and I only use 2 55watt lights on each tank. I can grow most plants including crypts and swords. I usually just keep the bulb running until the light burns out and then replace the bulb. I have been using these lights for 10 years without many problems.

I think the best thing about their lights is the reflector which really puts a lot of light into the tank. I would not recommend a 3-6-10 bulb for fresh water unless you want a lot of algae.

I've seen this website and perhaps I'm slow, but it's a little confusing to me. Thinking of the 2 watts per gallon rule, why would you want just 2 55watt lights?

Also when one of these kits is purchased, you basically have to assemble it from scratch without instructions?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 21 Jul 2011, 19:58

2W per gallon in a 125G tank would be 250W -> 4.5 x 54W tubes.

However, I think 2W per gallon is much more than what you require to grow the plants you are listing. On a 65G (or so) tank, I have a single 36W tube.

--
Mats

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 21 Jul 2011, 22:26

The old guidelines of using watts/gal to determine lighting requirements are simply no longer applicable.
That guideline was arrived at in the days when most fluorescent lights were the fat T-12 tubes. Now we have a complex mix of choices. LED lighting is no doubt going to be the future but for now the best fluorescent lamps to use are the various types of T-5 lamps which are mostly available in High Output(HO) T-5 and to a lesser extent, Normal Output(NO) T-5. I happen to use both types. I use a lot of NO T-5 lamps over my grow out tanks although I use 2 dual lamp fixtures, NO 48 inch T-5 over my 75 gallon Discus tank. See these:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209500/product.web
As a rule a NO T-5 uses less watts to produce as much light as an equivalent length of NO T-12 or T-8 lamp. The HO T-5 produce nearly twice as much light as a NO T-5.
Light intensity should be related more to the depth of the water than the volume of the tank. Another consideration is the efficiency and light spread of the fixture's reflector. Most HO T-5 fixtures are designed to be elevated above the water and often through a cover glass. Both factors attenuate the light intensity and these factors need to be taken into account.
In my 75 gal tank with the 4 X 48 inch NO T-5 lamps I can grow all but the most light demanding plants. I am able to lay the two dual lamp strip type fixtures directly on my cover glass because they run much cooler than the HO T-5 lamps. I could grow Anubias, Java ferns, Java mosses and other less demanding plants using only one of these strip light fixtures. However, because the their light is reflected over a fairly narrow area I get much better results by using one fixture along the front and one along the back.

If you decide to use the elevated HO T-5 fixtures for the 125 gallon tank I am going to assume it is a 72 inch long tank. Just two 36 inch, dual lamp T-5 fixtures makes a good choice for low light and moderate light requiring plants. In my own 125 gal planted tank that is what I am using. It could use two more single 36 inch HO T-5 because the existing fixtures do not provide quite enough light along the back third of the tank. Unfortunately, one can not buy a ready to use, single 72 inch HO T-5 fixture. See last paragraph for an alternative I plan to use. It doesn't make much sense to me to use one 48 inch and one 24 inch dual lamp HO T-5 fixture.
HO T-5 fixtures 72 inches long are available but all of those I know of are sold configured with 8 X 39 watt, 36 inch lamps and half of the lamps are 10, 000K and half are Actinic; these are for reef tanks. To use one for fresh water you would have to remove all the actinic lamps and replace them with anything between 5500K and 10,000K lamps which makes these fixtures cost approximately $600. Two dual lamp HO T-5, 36 inch fixtures cost about $120 ea so two would only cost about $240 to completely outfit your 125 gal adequately for low to moderate light demanding plants.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/244416/product.web

Another lighting option to consider are the new HO T-2 lamps.
Next to the still too expensive LED lights, I believe these are the future of aquarium lighting. The longest size that is available is 21 inches. However, up to three or four of these may be connected in a series, depending on the length and wattage of the lamp/fixture. I think 3 X 21 inch is the maximum for this size. These are only 1/4 inch diameter lamps and yet they produce as much light as an HO-t-5 of equivalent length yet take up a fraction of the space. These each come with a short electrical "pigtail" to allow connecting them in a series.
I plan to add a chain of three 21 inch HO T-2 along the back of my 125 gal tank. Only this company sells T-2 aquarium lights at this time:
http://aap.atrixnet.com/?p=246

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 21 Jul 2011, 23:26

Thank you for the information. MY head is spinning, but I take it my best options are the NO T5 or the HO T5...the difference between your two links being the latter, but also the fact that the HO T5 is elevated versus the NO T5 being a light strip placed firmly against the glass canopy. Is that correct?

2wheelsx2 · Post by **2wheelsx2** » 21 Jul 2011, 23:38

HO bulbs can be driven to higher wattages. That's the only difference. I can and have run HO bulbs in NO fixtures without a problem. So for example a 36" NO bulb is 21 watts while a 36" HO bulb can be driven to 39 watts. The biggest difference is not so much the wattage but the reflectors. I ran an HO retrofit kit without the reflectors for one day while I was mounting into a custom canopy and the output reduction was significant enough that the tank was dark.

I am growing ferns, vals and Anubias (but with CO2 injection) with 2x 42w NO fixtures and 2 36" Marineland LED fixtures over my 125. The t5's are on only for 4 hours while the LEDs are on for 7. I am growing more than I can use. So don't overdo it.

Firestorming · Post by **Firestorming** » 22 Jul 2011, 00:35

I bought 8 60cm LED bars off ebay and hooked them up in two lots of 4, running a 1.5A plug, they light up my 6x2x2 better than the 2x40w 4ft tubes ever did and the fish look amazing, my swords and anubias have started to go nuts with it too with new shhots and flowers popping up everywhere.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jul 2011, 01:36

Blackhawker wrote:Thank you for the information. MY head is spinning, but I take it my best options are the NO T5 or the HO T5...the difference between your two links being the latter, but also the fact that the HO T5 is elevated versus the NO T5 being a light strip placed firmly against the glass canopy. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct.
Gary, (twowheels),
I tried to run HO T-5, 48 inch lamps in the Coralife NO T-5 fixture(the one I mentioned above) and it lit up fine but the electronic ballast was permanently fried within a week and the HO T-5 lamps never worked again, even in an HO fixture.
It would appear that the ballast that the fixture uses depends on whether or not one could safely use a HO T-5 lamp in a NO T-5 fixture.
The only other NO T-5 fixtures I have used and still do, are the now discontinued single lamp Current fixtures. These are made for and come with a short pig tail which allows up to 4 to 5(depending on the model)fixtures to be connected) in a series. I wish these were still available. I use the 36 inch model. One on each of my 6 40 gal breeders. I run only two per row in a series. I have a few older fixtures which have failed but I am OK for now. I trimmed about 1-1/2 inches off the flat side of 36 inch sections of white plastic rain gutter to make reflectors. I drilled two pairs of holes in the right spots in the rain gutter so I could attach the light fixture to the rain gutter section with a couple zip ties. Really a cheap way to light basic utility tanks. Just enough light to grow Hornwort, Najas, Anubias, some types of hybrid sword plants and all Java ferns or Mosses.

2wheelsx2 · Post by **2wheelsx2** » 22 Jul 2011, 03:44

apistomaster wrote:[
Gary, (twowheels),
I tried to run HO T-5, 48 inch lamps in the Coralife NO T-5 fixture(the one I mentioned above) and it lit up fine but the electronic ballast was permanently fried within a week and the HO T-5 lamps never worked again, even in an HO fixture.
It would appear that the ballast that the fixture uses depends on whether or not one could safely use a HO T-5 lamp in a NO T-5 fixture.

Weird. I am doing exactly that. t5HO in a Coralife NO fixture. One bulb is NO and the other is HO. But it's a 24" fixture, so I don't know if it makes any difference or not.

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 22 Jul 2011, 03:55

I've yet to make the jump to the 125 gal, thought it's happening soon. I've got a 75 gal now. For right now I've got two options.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/24 ... roduct.web

http://www.ablackhorse.com/productcart/ ... uct=251267 and only running two bulbs.

Which would be the better buy/option for the goal of running a 125 planted...

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jul 2011, 04:32

Neither is a good option because they both come with one actinic lamp. These are intended for reef tanks.
That fish Place does carry units which are shipped out with lights tailored for fresh water fish and at least two are only $100 to $102(sale price). Carefully review their charts as often they list both reef and fresh water tailored lamps under some models. Avoid all actinic equipped fixtures. They will work but only after removing the actinic and buying and installing a daylight lamp replacement. Why do that when some are already set up for fresh water/planted tanks?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 22 Jul 2011, 08:14

The output from NO and HO tubes is regulated by the ballast (the big lumpy thing that goes with a fluorescent tube light of any type). I'm pretty certain that you need to use the right number of WATT on the ballast to get the output you want. Some ballasts have a wide range of output wattages (eg. 18-54W), others are pretty close range (e.g. 24-36W). Putting a 54W (4ft) HO tube in a slot for a 28W NO tube of the same sort, when the ballast isn't designed to take 54W tubes will be a very bad idea.

As the smaller tubes are lower wattage, I guess that will help being closer - the 549mm (approx 2ft) tubes are 14 and 24W respectively, so whilst it's about 70% more, it may be closer to (or under) the max wattage of the ballast.

I use T8 tubes because they are really inexpensive both for the ballst and the tubes themselves (especially if you buy "daylight" tubes from a lighting specialist, rather than from the aquarium shop - there is very little difference in what the tubes do, but the price is about 6 times lower - I'm getting 12 tubes today, and I'm paying £38 including shipping for 6 x 4ft (36W) and 6 x 5ft (58W) - all of them Osram 865 specification - meaning 6500K colour temperature with 80% colour accuracy).

--
Mats

Thriftyfisher · Post by **Thriftyfisher** » 22 Jul 2011, 15:57

This is turning out to be a good discussion.

Blackhawker, on the AH they have very good instructions on how to wire the kits and it is pretty easy. They actually call them retro kits as you can mount them inside of existing florescent fixtures and since there are so many different types of fixtures that can be retrofited they don't provide instructions on that. However, you can also build your own fixture and they will send you instructions on how to do that if you ask them to, its part 36559.

The HO T5 are really good lights as well. I have some that I have purchased at local club auctions. However, I don’t like the reflectors on them and so pretty much have stuck with the ones from AH.

To me the reflector that you use and the configuration of the bulbs in the reflector make as much of a difference on how well the lights work as do the type of bulb you use. That is one reason why I use these lights, great reflectors. We have had a good debate about lighting in my local club. We have found that using a good reflector will almost double the amount of light going into the tank. Because of the reflectors that I use in my 90 gallon tanks I really have about 200watts of light instead of the 110watts that the bulbs put out. This is a lot of light for those tanks, especially since I am growing lower to moderate light needing plants.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jul 2011, 16:40

All the T-5 fixtures, whether they are the NO T-5 or HO T-5 that I have bought, it is the reflectors that leave me wanting. I do not think they are as efficient as they could be.

When the the electronic ballasts begin giving out on the NO T-5 lights I described where they don't come with reflectors that I made my own from trimmed, white rain gutters need to be replaced, then I will look at the various retrofit options available for HO T-5 or T-2 fixtures.
These would be especially useful over my 40 gal breeders which are barely receiving enough light to grow some of the more tolerant plants.

I imagine I will be eventually replacing them with either HO T-5 retro fit kits or those new HO T-2 lamps and fixtures.
I will first try three 21 inch T-2 fixtures connected by the supplied pig tails along the back of my 125 gal so I can get a chance to evaluate these as possible future lights over my breeding and grow out tanks.

I am also learning from this good discussion.

2wheelsx2 · Post by **2wheelsx2** » 22 Jul 2011, 16:47

For my 24" t5HO retrofit kit (Hagen GLO), I'm using Tek parabolic reflectors. They focus way more light down into the tank than any I've seen. I've look at the Tek and GLO rigs (not the retrofit ones, but the finished fixtures) and the fit and spacing of those really minimize restrike and maximize downward light output.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jul 2011, 16:52

Gary,
Do you happen to have a link to the Hagen parabolic reflectors handy?
Other wise I guess I will have to do some digging on the Hagen website.

2wheelsx2 · Post by **2wheelsx2** » 22 Jul 2011, 16:57

I got my Tek reflectors from a LFS which deals only in marine and reef livestock, but didn't have the GLO reflectors. They are very similar to each other. Here's a place I found with some searching for the GLO reflectors: http://www.marineandreef.com/Hagen_Glo_ ... _s/598.htm

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 22 Jul 2011, 18:06

Those are nice reflectors. Very similar to those I made from cut down, white rain gutter but far more reflective plus the hardware is handy.
My DIY only cost a couple dollars each vs $25 but I wouldn't let the price stop me.

2wheelsx2 · Post by **2wheelsx2** » 22 Jul 2011, 19:03

They are extremely reflective, and as you said, the mounting is much more convenient. I took them off for one day to mount them to my custom canopy and just having the light with no reflector was so dim I could hardly see the fish, at 48w (2 tubes). With the reflectors, there's at least 4x the light just by eyeballing it.

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 30 Jul 2011, 06:37

I ended up purchasing this...for my 75 gal and will carry it over to my 125 gal with another fixture, probably LED.

https://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/2 ... roduct.web

thoughts?

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 10 Aug 2011, 03:45

bump...will my setup grow swords?

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 10 Aug 2011, 04:17

The 48 inch dual HO T-5 will grow sword plants but only directly under the length of the fixture. That is why I bought 2 X 36 inch dual HO T-5 for my 125 gal.
I am not sure how you would combine LED fixtures that are equivalent to the 48 inch HO T-5's. Maybe a one 12 X 12 inch at either side of the main 48 inch? The dual lamp T-5 do not cover the entire bottom well but do a good job for about 2/3 the width of the tank assuming 18-1/2 inches wide 125 gal.
I just ordered 3 X HO T-2, 6400K daylight, 21 inch fixtures and connecting links to fill in the back third of the tank because the two fixtures are not quite enough for some plants. My 125 gal has 3 cover glasses and two cross braces. These T-2 lamps and fixtures are new to me but are supposed to radiate as much light as a similar length HO T-5 but are only 1/4" diameter fluorescent lights! They are cool enough to lay on the back cover glasses. I am looking forward to seeing how they actually perform. They are on sale for $25 each instead of $30 each so it is a bargain. If I use more light than that I should use supplemental CO2 diffusion and I do not want to get that involved with more expensive gadgets.
Info about T-2, 6400K aquarium http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... mbulb.html

Take a look at the AquaBeam 1500 XG Ultima*30 watt Aqua Beam 1500 Ultima 9000K Daylight- $339.99. I am sure one of these on either end of your centered 48 inch HO T-5 would fully fill in your lighting but truly correct spectrum, high powered LED fixtures remain very expensive. They are expensive up front but each of these is about equal to a 250 watts MH and last 50,000 hours and produce as much light at less than 20% the power consumption. Over the years they pay for themselves but it sure is expensive upfront. http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDLights.html

Post by **Shane** » 10 Aug 2011, 12:48

One more option if you are looking to save some serious money.

http://www.truevalue.com/product/48-Inc ... /21494.uts

These 48" lights run US $11.99 and work wonderfully. One unit provides 80 watts of (T12) light. Two would give you 160 watts, plenty of light for what you are growing.

Below is a heavily planted South American 55 gallon of mine that used two shop lamps (160 watts T12 light). Total lighting cost to set up this tank was around US $20.
The other tank is a west African design and used only one shop lamp, so lighting investment was under US $12.00.

To be truthful, these shop lamps only last 4-5 years, but at under $12 a unit who cares.
-Shane

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 10 Aug 2011, 18:21

So basically, they now have cheap shop lights which are equivalent to VHO fluorescent.
That is a hard deal to beat.

Blackhawker · Post by **Blackhawker** » 11 Aug 2011, 07:07

I love the SA setup Shane!

Off base question, do you use C02 in that tank?

Post by **Shane** » 11 Aug 2011, 12:45

Off base question, do you use C02 in that tank?

No, no CO2.
-Shane

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 11 Aug 2011, 17:05

I received my 3, 21 inch T2 units yesterday from amercanaquariumproducts and they added the fill in lighting I needed for my 125 gal. They are incredibly bright.
I connected the three units in a series so I have just one plug in. The axial rotating, reflective lights allow me to aim the lights just where I want them. 73 lumens per watt. A 21 inch, 13 watt fixture produces as much light as a similar length of HO T-5 lamp. The lamps are only 1/4 inch diameter.

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