What am I? 3-4" in length... black and white spots?

[pigeons]

http://i53.tinypic.com/33nusxz.jpg

Please help. I've been trying to find out for years.

I'll trying linking a video later.

Edit:

Link to video:

[Mod edit: Use youtube tags --Mats]

[MatsP]

Looks like a native Australasian fish, e.g. Neosilurus.

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

in over a year I have not seen a post on neosilurus and now this is the third one in a short while...

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 04#p221737

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 13&t=33167

[pigeons]

Looks like a native Australasian fish, e.g. Neosilurus.

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Mats

Maybe... The fins and whiskers look similar.

Here's the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bmM_cWdY3E

Not sure if it will help identifying it...

[Birger]

thats an

Ictaluridae

but pictures are not very clear.

Maybe

Ameiurus serracanthus

Birger

[Viktor Jarikov]

the video ia way too fuzzy - it even looks like a bullhead to me too; but the photo does not.

[pigeons]

the video ia way too fuzzy - it even looks like a bullhead to me too; but the photo does not.

I know.

Both the picture and the video are from an old phone... I wouldn't be able to get better pics or vids because unfortunately the fish passed away

I am interested in getting another one just like it... or at least similar... I've been to some pet stores and have yet to see one that looks like my old fish. :\

[Narwhal72]

You won't find them in shops in the U.S. They are a native species and are subject to laws and regulations of the state you are in. These laws often prevent the sale, possesion, and/or transport of native species without the proper permits. They are also not very good community fish due to their aggression and predatory nature which makes them unpopular with dealers.

Andy

[pigeons]

You won't find them in shops in the U.S. They are a native species and are subject to laws and regulations of the state you are in. These laws often prevent the sale, possesion, and/or transport of native species without the proper permits. They are also not very good community fish due to their aggression and predatory nature which makes them unpopular with dealers.

Andy

Seems to make sense... I got it from a friend, they gave it to me because it was aggressive towards other fish... They said they got it from a pet store... They might have been lying. Kinda sad though... I liked the little guy... :\

[MatsP]

I have heard of people getting them from pet-shops before. I believe regulations are different in different states, so you may be able to find them in shops in one state, but not in another. If they are illegal to keep in YOUR state, then obviously, it's a bad idea to smuggle them across state borders - I believe that's called "federal offence".

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

If it was indeed Ameiurus serracanthus, I myself bought three of them - one in NY and two in CT. Mats is right - regulations differ and fuzzy and fish ID-ying is full of errors and ignorance and/or lack of motivation or time to get the right ID.

You are quite vague about your global positioning. On purpose? Moderators don't like that. Neither does Jools, the WebMaster. Unless you are in a witness protection program

Pics of dead fish can be even better because there is no glass and water in between and the fish is still and the lighting and the focus can be made perfect.

I lost loads of fish and I feel your pain but that's the game. The only ones who don't kill/lose the fish are the ones who never try to keep one.

Could it have been Ameiurus serracanthus (FL bullhead, marbelled bullhead)? The snout in the photo does not look right for any bullhead or can it be just the funny camera angle?

My three guys never bothered any tankmates, AFAIK. Sweet, peaceful, brave and interactive feeders.

Federal offence? IMHO would not be for a bullhead cat. Snakeheads, asian carp (several species, grass carp, flying carp, silver carp, bighead carp), etc. may be. Arapaima in FL. Illegal asian arowanas. Just hard for me to imagine EPA/whatever agency getting vicious over a bullhead. Not that your chances of getting caught are high either - it is close to winning a major lottery unless you tout on every corner who you are and what you have. These regulations are notoriously unenforceable and when they catch a guy, like that poor lad in Siracuse, NY with a 2 foot snakehead nicknamed Rocky, they appear to try to make the person a scapegoat and publisize the case to scare others "straight". If this is indeed their intent, it is so wrong, of course, even in the name of the high cause.

[MatsP]

I'm not a lawyer. What I meant by "federal offense" is that it's "outside state law", which means that it's a more serious offense.

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Mats

[crkinney]

I can solve your problem .get your self a cane pole and a pile of chicken liver and go to the local pond sit down on a bucket with a beer and catch a couple for the tank and a couple for the table.If they don't bite fry up the chicken liver and try another pond next week .It is good for the sole and fun
mule

[MatsP]

Of course, since Pigeons haven't told us where he(she?) lives, we can't know if it's legal to catch/keep the fish in that location.

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'm not a lawyer. What I meant by "federal offense" is that it's "outside state law", which means that it's a more serious offense.

yeah, i realized what you meant a bit after what triggered my poorly thought-through response are the words federal offence, usually uttered when people get in big trouble... but maybe it's all just in my head too. perhaps these words can mean a small offence too but commited across state borders.

[MatsP]

It is a more serious crime, as far as I understand it, simply because it involves crossing state borders.

Either way, it's generally best avoiding any sort of illegal capture/trade in fish.

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Mats

[pigeons]

I had no idea keeping one fish would put me in jail?

I took it off my friend's hands because it was eating their other fish.

I live in Florida, if it is illegal to keep these then I don't plan on trying to find one. I just really liked the fish. I don't like to put all my information in the internet, that's just my preference.

If it helps, I got the fish about 4+ yrs ago and it died 1+ yrs ago.

If it is illegal, can I get a license to keep the fish?

[racoll]

If it is

Ameiurus serracanthus

, then these are Florida natives, so I can't imagine you would get in trouble for keeping them, unless they are endangered.

As mentioned already, your best option would be to try to catch one yourself from a local waterway.

To give it the best quality of life, you would need a decent sized tank with a large filter. The fact that the last one died at 4" long suggests that it wasn't being kept in optimum conditions, as these fish should get bigger than this.

[pigeons]

If it is

Ameiurus serracanthus

, then these are Florida natives, so I can't imagine you would get in trouble for keeping them, unless they are endangered.

As mentioned already, your best option would be to try to catch one yourself from a local waterway.

To give it the best quality of life, you would need a decent sized tank with a large filter. The fact that the last one died at 4" long suggests that it wasn't being kept in optimum conditions, as these fish should get bigger than this.

Looking at some of those pictures, I would say so far that is the most similar fish to the one I had posted. If not, the same species.

If I'm not mistaken this website says they can grow to 11"?

The fish I had was pretty healthy, I had it alone in a ten gallon tank for almost 3yrs, wasn't really lethargic... Ate any fish food. I added some other fish, my local pet store gave me six fish for free, they seemed like pretty generic fish... The catfish only bothered them when they were in it's corner... I got home one day and I see the six fish eating the skin off my catfish... I was so sad... Still don't know what really happened though. :\

[racoll]

It was unlikely that it was possible to maintain sufficiently good water quality in a 10g tank. This would have certainly been why it died.

For this kind of fish, a 50g or larger tank is ultimately required.

[pigeons]

It was unlikely that it was possible to maintain sufficiently good water quality in a 10g tank. This would have certainly been why it died.

For this kind of fish, a 50g or larger tank is ultimately required.

Oh wow... Then I'm not planning to get one of these 'till I get the space for a much bigger tank. Thanks for letting me know.

[apistomaster]

Whenever the National Convention of the American Killiefish Association is held in Florida there is always a group of collectors who go out with a local Floridian resident AKA member to collect the various native Killefish and I have never heard of them having to obtain any license to do so.
I'm sure that this species of native Bullhead Catfish is not on any threatened or endangered species list so I am sure it is legal to catch and keep them. They take their catch home to all parts of the country.

Conditions are different in Florida from where I live in eastern Washington State but when I was a kid, my brother and I would collect fish from pools left behind after the spring run off. Many times we encountered large schools of one inch, jet black schools of whatever Bullhead species that happened to get stranded in these ponds. We have a couple different species which were introduced in the 1890's. They were hard to miss because the schools could number a thousand or so and it was very easy to net some to take home for our cold water tanks. Sometimes we would get a glimpse of the brooding male shepherding his fry around. Normally all you need is a fishing license to collect native fishes. Another way is to use baited minnow traps.
If you can find similar pools or ponds in your area the fishing could be very good and netting them is so much gentler than using a baited hook. Brooding males tend to stay in water only 2 to 3 feet deep along the shores. That would probably be where your chances would be best for netting small fry in Florida.
Floridian waters offer a large number of attractive and desirable cold water aquarium fish. Madtom Cats often spawn inside aluminum beverage cans if you are interested in those. At least Madtoms stay small.
It does take some good luck to find a school of fry but they are very attractive jet black fish when they are that small so to identify to the species level would require a close examination and a species key to determine which of the species you net. We were always exploring the ponds for live fish food but usually we could not find enough live foods to collect if the ponds held any fish. There were some exceptions where we could collect large quantities of Daphnia in a near by reservoir that is stocked with Rainbow Trout. Early spring and mid fall are good times to catch the Daphnia by the pounds.

We often collected juvenile Blue Gills or Pumpkin Seed Sunfish as tank mates for the few juvenile Bullheads we kept.
It gets harder all the time to know what you might catch. One of my fly fishing buddies who lives in eastern Oregon was fishing for Blue Gills and large mouth bass and sent me a photo of a fish he couldn't identify and it turned out to be an Albino Tiger Oscar about 10 inches long. Some knucklehead released his pet in the pond. It was early September. There is no way an Oscar could survive our cold winters.

We have many beautiful or interesting native, small, cool water species in nearly every state that make good aquarium subjects.

Racoll is correct. You really do need to use at least a 40 gal breeder tank or a 55 gal to keep a couple bullhead cats properly and these natives should be stocked at much lower levels than tropical fish. It doesn't sound like you are ready for them. However there are some native Killiefish and Pygmy Sunfish which can be kept in a 10 gal tank and they will be much more colorful.

[DeepFriedIctalurus]

Very young

Ameiurus nebulosus

show up in ghost shrimp (Palaemonetes paludosus) shipments from Florida on occasion, and their speckled coloration from that region looks very similar to

Ameiurus serracanthus

. Mine had my hopes up for a while, but they're still very nice looking browns nonetheless.

As for getting in trouble for having a native catfish, not at all likely considering that "glofish" & Misgurnis ssp loaches are illegal to possess in the state of Michigan, but most every fish shop has them for sale. Luckily, enforcement truly is a losing game for these silly laws.

[apistomaster]

There are many state and federal laws in this country that are not based on science or common sense.
The farmed Scleropages formosa, Asian Arowanas, are a case in point. The farmers must release about 20% of the fish they raise back into the wild but their more colorful strains they sell are implanted with a radio ID tags so there is a clear chain of custody. Based on the CITES Treaty they are endangered species in the wild but those fish are very different from the bred forms with tags. Canada allows these ornamental color forms to be imported but the USA Feds do not because of their narrow interpretation of the law.
Maybe I would never buy an Asian Arowana but if I wanted a one as a pet I would want one of the bred color forms but I can't have one under US federal laws. I happen to like the bred forms of Asian Arowana. I am not of Asian ethnicity but having an Arowana in the home is a feng shui enhancing possession.
The list of USA unrealistic restrictions is a long one and most can be justified but many can not.

[Proteus]

Theres many cases when young bullheads are caught with feeder minnows for the pet trade, same with mix ins of other natives too but nowadays its more regulated. So yes I believe the buddy did purchase it from the pet shop. But the video shows the bullhead to be more silvery tint to it or is my computer coloring off? Ive not yet seen a bullhead with that silver glint to it.

[Narwhal72]

In Wisconsin the rules are fairly complex.

You may not remove a live gamefish from any state waters (it's perfectly fine to kill it first though). You will need a fishing license to do this unless you are under 16. This rule is to stop the spread of VHS.

You may purchase gamefish from a licensed dealer. You will of course need a fishing license to do so.

You can keep gamefish in your home aquarium but you need a fishing license and it counts towards your daily catch limit. How they expect to enforce this I don't know.

All non-native fish are black listed unless they are:
1. Not able to survive in Wisconsin waters. (Tropical fish and saltwater fish)
2. Nonnative species that are commercially established (koi and goldfish)

These rules vary from state to state.
Andy

[kemozabi]

This cat looks similar to some of the ones in this thread. Same family? Same cat? I need to see some identification.

unknown cat

[Birger]

This last fish looks to be

Ameiurus serracanthus

Birger

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'd most definitely agree.