Disease Identification

[ErikO]

I had recently posted this.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =6&t=32180

Looks like I have another fish with the similar problem. I've been doing a lot of research on the forum for fin rot etc. There appears to me a lot of conflicting information basically due to the inability to acuratly identify the actual disease.

Is there anything available like a flow chart to assit in disease identification? I've been keeping fish for a long time and I have been very lucky to not have had much in the way of illness or disease. So I'm really at a loss as where to start.

Thanks

[MatsP]

There is this:
http://www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perp ... alleryId=2

Another option is of course to take a photo of your fish and post it here...

And although you may not have tested your water for 10 years, now may be a good time to at the very least check your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. These are definitely environmental factors that affect fish health.

--
Mats

[ErikO]

Thanks Mats,

I plan on picking up some test kits after work today. I'll post the results. I may have to pick up a camera. I'm kind of old school.

[ErikO]

Ammonia 0 - .25 ppm

Nitrite less than .3 ppm

Nitrate ~ 5 - 10 ppm

That's probably very similar to my tap water. Ph 6.8 - 7.1 and soft. From the link to the pics., I think it's probaly a fungus infection.

Thanks,

Erik

[Mike_Noren]

In my experience most "fungal infections" (Saprolegnia et al) are really columnaris (Flavobacterium (previously Flexibacter) columnare). In my opinion the photos of mouthrot, finrot, and many of the 'bacterial infection' photos on JBE's site Mats link to show columnaris. In practice it doesn't much matter because the "antifungal medications" for fish typically are really shotgun mixes intended to deal with both fungi and bacteria, but if you use non-fish-medication it might be worth knowing that columnaris is a gram-negative bacterium.

One of the best sources of information on columnaris that I know of is this: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

Columnaris is extremely common, and highly infectious. Note that young or weak fish may die before they develop visible symptoms, or after only developing mild saddleback/mouthrot/finrot symptoms, while adult, strong, fish often survive long enough to develop large ulcers.

[MatsP]

Ammonia 0 - .25 ppm

Nitrite less than .3 ppm

Nitrate ~ 5 - 10 ppm

That's probably very similar to my tap water. Ph 6.8 - 7.1 and soft. From the link to the pics., I think it's probaly a fungus infection.

Thanks,

Erik

Is the "0 - 0.25" and "less than 0.3 ppm" because your test-kit doesn't have a "none detected" colour?
If it's really "none detected", then it's no reason for concern, but if you have nitrite and ammonia in the water, then your filter bacteria isn't doing their job, which you probably should fix (by doing large water changes until the filter bacteria re-establishes).

--
Mats

[ErikO]

Thanks Mike and Mats,

Mike, the Saddleback Disease referanced in your attached link seems to be an accurate desription of what has happened to both fish. Columnaris sounds like a nasty disease especially since it seems to thrive best in clean healthy tanks. Not good news. I'm not sure as to what I should or can be doing next.

Mats, the Nitrite test did not have a none dedected color. The less than .3 ppm is the lowest it will read. The Ammonia test was probably closer to none dedected than the .25 ppm. If I was in error, I preffered to error on the high side. I'll redo the tests again tonight after a water change.

Thanks again guys. Any input would be appreciated.

[MatsP]

Any measureable amount of ammonia or nitrite are signs that your filter bacteria isn't working. This will stress the fish, which will make them more susceptible to illness.

--
Mats

[ErikO]

Thursday morning I checked on the fish before work. I thought it would be dead or I'd have to dispose of it after work. After work it was resting on the bottom and looked better. A few hours later it aggressively started feeding. By Friday evening it's behavior was back to normal and it looked much better. Today, I can hardly tell that it was sick. I'm amazed.

If it indeed was Columnaris, the only thing I could think to do was to lower the temperature - an option I don't have most of the year as my tanks stay at around 80F without a heater 9 - 10 months of the year. Turned off the heater Wednesday and the tank came down to 76F. I don't know if that helped.

Would this fish now have an increased immunity to Columnaris? How about the rest of the fish?

Thanks again,

Erik

[apistomaster]

Columnaris is one of the most difficult diseases to deal with because it is very contagious and fast acting.
One of the best arguments for using a quarantine tank for new fishes there is.
I used to be able to treat it effectively with the water soluble form of chloramphenicol but that drug is now highly restricted. I don't know of any other antibiotic still available to fish keepers which comes close to matching it's effectiveness but use one that is effective for gram negative bacteria as Mike recommended. That is your best option.
I do not understand why you would wish to lower the temperatures. I never did and if anything I raised them a few degrees F during treatment and provided plenty of aeration.

I used to buy box lots of Florida raised live bearers and wild Cardinals and chloramphenicol saved me many 1000's of dollars worth of fish. Both frequently came in already showing symptoms of Columnaris.

[ErikO]

Hi Larry,

My reason for lowering the temperature was from the above link.

"Temperature Spikes or sustained high temperatures can also allow for a Columnaris infection to take hold in an otherwise healthy aquarium especially if other stressors are present such as injury, stress, age, etc.
Columnaris thrives a temperatures above 80 F (I have observed 85-90 to be a range where Columnaris is most virulent). Temperatures in the 80s is more a factor in cold water fish such as Goldfish."

From this and some of the other research I had done, I maybe incorrectly assumed that the Columnaris was already in my tank when I introduced the new fish to it.

Thanks,

Erik

[Mike_Noren]

If it recovered without any treatment at all I doubt it was columnaris. Lowering temperature supposedly slows the disease, but I don't think that alone will cause the fish to spontaneously recover.

[ErikO]

Mike,

I questioned that as well. It sure wasn't fatal.

The eighth row down middle picture is the closest to what it looked like.

http://www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perp ... alleryId=2

Erik

[Mike_Noren]

http://www.jbl.de/onlinehospitaluk/perp ... alleryId=2

It appears JBL has redesigned their homepage and removed the online gallery. What a shame, it was one of the best resources for online images of fish diseases.

Well, the important thing is that your fish recovered.