L287 or L066?

[AleGer]

L287 or L066?
I’ve got this pair a year ago as

Hypancistrus sp(L287)

. They are F1. There were up to 7 cm TL. Now they are more then 10 cm TL.
The photos when I got them a year ago:




A year later:





Female



Male


Both Male and Female
Are they

Hypancistrus sp(L287)

or

Hypancistrus sp(L066)

?
Or maybe something else?

[macvsog23]

Hi
Lovely fish
As I am sure you’re aware the L numbers that are assigned to the "Black & White" scribble plecos are always open to debate so I will not go down that road.
I can only say they look like a group of fish I have, I brought them as L066, I have been told they are any thing from L173 to L400 ECT by a variety of people.
Mine were imported last year from Columbia but that is not to say that is the catch location just the 1st point were some one put a hand up.
A story going around that I am sure cant be true is that some L173,s were given to the top breeders in Germany to try to establish a breeding program and some naughty person crossed these with L 066 to get some fry to sell quickly.
That could be the fish we have if it is true.

[pleco22]

Hi,

difficult to say. But I think your fish are untypical L 66. First: L 287 is not a valid L-Number. The magazine DATZ introduced L 287 in december 2000. But this introduction was from the beginning problematic. Only one fish was imported with L74, a panaqolus species from Rio do Para. But does that mean, L 287 is from Rio do Para? No, it could also be that the fish was catched in Xingu River and was just hiding in the tank until the exporter put in some L 74. Beeing imported with L 74 doesn't mean being catched at the same location. But the DATZ ignored this possibility and introduced L 287 based on a single fish, without a catching location. No wonder, that L 287 is weakly defined.

Many imports of this kind of fish arrived in Germany, but all from Xingu and as far as I know, never from Rio do Para. Some years later some people decided, that L 287 is the same fish as Hypancistrus sp. "Belo Monte", later introduced as L 399/400 (also a mess).

So if you think your fish could be L 287, you are definitely wrong, because L 287 doens't exist.

Aquarium Glaser (Germany) has imported some L 287, identified with the aqualog reference. These type of fish are similar to L 66, but differ in body shape (caudal fin), pattern (more banded than wormlined) and size (smaller). I have a pair of this fish and bread them. But in my opinion they are very close to L 66 but not the same. So I decided to call them Hypancistrus sp. "L 287 Glaser 2007) to avoid mixtures with L 66 ore L 399/400.

Your fish reminds me of my L 287, when i bought them from Glaser in 2007. But the caudal fin of the male is like L 66. The pattern is not typical for L 66, but possible, because of the many variations L 66 shows.

You see its very difficult to identify your fish. My tip: Don't mix them with L 66 or other variants and try to breed the pair. If the offspring shows real difference to L 66, this is perhaps the same fish I bought as L 287. But perhaps this is also just a variant of a Hypancistrus that will be described sooner or later as one species . . .

Here some pictures of my L 287 Glaser 2007

Picture shows the male with 100mm TL


Picture shows a youngster with 70mm

Typical L 66 with 120mm. Look at the odontodes. L 287 never shows that much.

Regards

[Jools]

I really must change the cat-elog entry for l287...


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[AleGer]

Thanks for replies:)

pleco22, I didn't mentioned the parents of my fish came from Glaser as L287. I know that the L287 isn't a valid L-Number. But I thought that it is the same as L399/400. Now I know that it isn't.
I don't know whether it is the same fish as you have as Hypancistrus sp. "L 287 Glaser 2007". But It really cold be the same.

I keep them (pair) in a 100 l tank with L260 and L262. And they have already spawned.

[macvsog23]

So a total mess as far as the L number?
I think we should sit back and enjoy our fish
Pleco22 I am amazed you can keep up with the situation it would totally destroy my sanity.
My fish are exactly the same as AlGger,s fish even the fry are the same but they did not come from Germany.
Thanks and Regards

Bob

[pleco22]

Hi,
that is why i post the "full" name of my fish. Perhaps the "Glaser 2007" tag leads to someone with the same fish. Sharing of fresh blood between breeding groups will be easier and the risk of hybrids is lower.

@bob
i think a detroyed sanity is a basic requirement to keep wormlined hypancistrus

[AleGer]

Some new photos of mine Hypancistrus sp. L287 "Glaser"

Male:




Female:




They spawned first at the end of December 2010 in a 100 l tank.
Male with eggs:


Now the fry more then 3 cm long.
Fry:

[jac]

The fry have some interesting patterns.
I have some hypans witch many told me that they would be L400. Mine are not wormlined but have mostly spots just like L174 but have bigger eyes and the same kind of bodyshape/size as the fish shown above. Mine have also spawned a few times now. Can't wait to see what the fry look like when they are older!
As I have full grown wc L66 breeding fish I can compare the two species but they are certainly not the same fish!

[AleGer]

Some more eggs from my Hypancistrus sp.L287 "Glaser"
The photos were taken 2011.03.03





BTW in the previous my post at the last photo one of the fry is

L174

not L287 "Glaser"

[Janne]

I agree with pleco22 that L287 is not a valid L-number, these belong to the complex of varities L399-L400 and what I call lower xingu. Even if your pictures of adults show a similar fin pattern as L66 I would not state they are this species, for me all these varities origin around Belo Monte is a complex of "species". Few spots (small localities) show similar patterns and body shape and within these you find a few very different, move a few hundred meters and you find a "new variety"... it's a hotspot for this genus and even that the diversity has been known for so many years it still suprise me that no one make any efforts to study this fenomen.

Janne

[AleGer]

New photo of the eggs:

This photo was taken 2011.03.05

[AleGer]

New photo:


Today the fry hatched out.

[AleGer]

New photo:

[MatsP]

I really must change the cat-elog entry for l287...


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@Jools: I have updated the L287 entry. Not sure if it's "right" - feel free to edit or discard...

--
Mats

[AleGer]

New photos:

[AleGer]

Proto one of the adult Hypancistrus sp.L287 "Glaser" and Hypancistrus sp. L262.

[AleGer]

New photos:

[AleGer]

It is quite an easy pleco to keep and to breed.

As I wrote before my Hypancistrus sp. L287 "Glaser" spawned first at the end of Deceber 2010 at the size approximately 9 cm TL. Their age is unknown but I think it they are two years old.
A pair Male at the bottom:


The tank size is 100 L 55X40X45 cm. (45 is a height). The tank is complicated with sand (the fraction is 1 mm in diameter ) wood, stone and bone caves, two pomps 1200 l/h. There wasn't any plants in the tank because of faint light. The neighbors where L262 and L260.
The first spawn happened after I changed 80% of tank to RO water with conductivity 30 microsiemens. The water in the tank was 30 C. I got out of the cave 17 fries from the rest escaped the cave to the main tank earlier.


After first spawn I began to add top water to the tank (with conductivity 500 microsiemens). The hypancistrus spawned second time 4 weeks after the first one. I used only top water for 30% water changing at the every next spawn.


Eggs:




3 day old fry:


The fry grows uneven and not very fast, but quite faster then other small hypancistrus such as L174.
Two and a half months old fry, 3,5 cm size:

[AleGer]